Better late right than wrong early

9 hours ago, Claudius_ said:

Some commercial dealers have to face with this new way to live a flight sim, and PMDG above all didn't understand it.

I'm not sure the devs are the ones who didn't understand it.  Let's consider the success of the PMDG and Fenix products both in MSFS... it's not exactly as though the market has punished them for anything, is it?

People are funny.  This is true everywhere, but seems particularly true in this hobby for whatever reason.  For every 1 user complaining about something related to these products, there's 100 that are happily using it.

In that context, it's not the product that has the problem.  ;)

3 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

I'm not sure the devs are the ones who didn't understand it.  Let's consider the success of the PMDG and Fenix products both in MSFS... it's not exactly as though the market has punished them for anything, is it?

People are funny.  This is true everywhere, but seems particularly true in this hobby for whatever reason.  For every 1 user complaining about something related to these products, there's 100 that are happily using it.

In that context, it's not the product that has the problem.  😉

MSFS20 changed the way to live the flight sim and I'm very happy with this. I don't care if I'm one of the few that have to criticize the work of some addons, I'm not in the so called "market", I'm just an (old) aviation enthusiast and I'm feel free to express my opinions, and I think that MSFS20 with millions of new users, has lowered the level of the hardcore users so much. The majority love McDonald's, the few love the haute cuisine. Also, I didn't say terrible things against PMDG and Fenix, after all the first made the best 737 and DC-6 (the famous PMDG abandon ware), not to mention the EFB saga; the second in my opinion made a good A320, but after the last patch it flies slightly "mushy" together a lot of bugs to rectify, but we'll have an entire new (posticipated) Airbus series, we'll see what happens in October front the point of view of the quality.

The last but not least, I'm not focused to the market, I couldn't care less of it.

36 minutes ago, Claudius_ said:

The last but not least, I'm not focused to the market, I couldn't care less of it.

Right, but the devs who actually make and sell their work certainly are.  If there were any widespread perceptions of poor quality or communication, the market would reflect this.  It clearly does not.

I'm not even sure what it would mean to "live" flight sim, but I think I hope I never find out.

1 hour ago, Claudius_ said:

MSFS20 changed the way to live the flight sim and I'm very happy with this. I don't care if I'm one of the few that have to criticize the work of some addons, I'm not in the so called "market", I'm just an (old) aviation enthusiast and I'm feel free to express my opinions, and I think that MSFS20 with millions of new users, has lowered the level of the hardcore users so much. The majority love McDonald's, the few love the haute cuisine. Also, I didn't say terrible things against PMDG and Fenix, after all the first made the best 737 and DC-6 (the famous PMDG abandon ware), not to mention the EFB saga; the second in my opinion made a good A320, but after the last patch it flies slightly "mushy" together a lot of bugs to rectify, but we'll have an entire new (posticipated) Airbus series, we'll see what happens in October front the point of view of the quality.

The last but not least, I'm not focused to the market, I couldn't care less of it.

You positive attitude is underwhelming, that's for sure. 😉

2 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

I'm not even sure what it would mean to "live" flight sim, but I think I hope I never find out.

So, have you a better way to define how you use a flight sim? I prefer to "live" a flight sim because I spend several hours of my life every week in a virtual aircraft flying in a virtual world, and I don't do it for money, but some people do it for money and they have all my compassion in this regard. Also "live" a flight sim is the same we are looking for when we find a virtual aircraft more or less "realistic" and "immersive", if we find the right atmosphere and climate (without stutters and bugs), we are living a flight sim. Too difficult for you?

Sorry to be OT, but some people here are thinking that is more important my underwhelming opinions than the next Fenix A3XX airplanes. Sometimes I'm finding the boolickers, but today I discovered a new category: the buttkickers.

 

6 hours ago, Claudius_ said:

So, have you a better way to define how you use a flight sim? I prefer to "live" a flight sim because I spend several hours of my life every week in a virtual aircraft flying in a virtual world, and I don't do it for money, but some people do it for money and they have all my compassion in this regard. 

 

Yes.  It's a game.  You're playing a computer game.

I don't say that disparigingly, just honestly.  That's what using software for entertainment is - playing a computer game.  I'm aware a contingent of people are offended by this nomenclature, and I've never been able to understand why... but I think that is certainly the simplest and most concise way to define it. 

41 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Yes.  It's a game.  You're playing a computer game.

I don't say that disparigingly, just honestly.  That's what using software for entertainment is - playing a computer game.  I'm aware a contingent of people are offended by this nomenclature, and I've never been able to understand why... but I think that is certainly the simplest and most concise way to define it. 

Yes, you are living a computer game, I'm living a cheaper flight simulator. 😄

Edited September 27, 20232 yr by Claudius_

17 minutes ago, Claudius_ said:

Yes, you are living a computer game, I'm living a cheaper flight simulator. 😄

No, we're *playing* computer games.  Because that's what one does with games.  I've always thought that when a game starts assuming too much meaning in a person's life, that's a really good time to re-examine priorities.

Perhaps linguistic differences here, but to me, the meaning of "living" something is that it's profoundly meaningful to your life.  I wouldn't even say I "live" actual flying, despite the fact that it's been my profession and a large part of my entire adult life... it's still just a thing that I do.  I *live* my family life, and hiking with my dogs, and reading and writing etc... flight sims are fun but I sure wouldn't want to "live" one.

I'm hoping that Fenix will solve the problems with their A320 and will make it better and better, at the moment we have problems with the cockpit lighting, the fuel burning, and many other things that will make their "product" more immersive. But I'm afraid that they are following the same PMDG way, where they want sell more " new products" and so few updates for the ones that are already in the "market" (see the DC-6 saga).

In their Discord channel the devs are present for assistance and discussion and I like it, but at the same time the problem to make more and faster updates is still there, MSFS20 changed the way how we are living a flight sim in an evolution logic, no more a standby "product" that remain the same for years.

50 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

No, we're *playing* computer games.  Because that's what one does with games.  I've always thought that when a game starts assuming too much meaning in a person's life, that's a really good time to re-examine priorities.

Perhaps linguistic differences here, but to me, the meaning of "living" something is that it's profoundly meaningful to your life.  I wouldn't even say I "live" actual flying, despite the fact that it's been my profession and a large part of my entire adult life... it's still just a thing that I do.  I *live* my family life, and hiking with my dogs, and reading and writing etc... flight sims are fun but I sure wouldn't want to "live" one.

Don't go too deep with him I don't think he is too fond of Payware and their "business and development strategy" at the moment.

@Claudius its OK we understand you have issues with Fenix and somehow PMDG at this point and you have stated this in several post. Just go fly FBW or whatever else you like and move on, it will not have much reflection on who uses what you consider revolution in software development. Keep those donations open though in order to keep the free downloads rolling. PMDG and Fenix business will go on as usual.

Edited September 27, 20232 yr by JBDB-MD80

2 minutes ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

@Claudius its OK we understand you have issues with Fenix and somehow PMDG at this point and you have stated this in several post. Just go fly FBW or whatever else you like and move on, it will not have much reflection on who uses what you consider revolution in software development. Keep those donations open though in order to keep the free downloads rolling. PMDG and Fenix business will go on as usual.

Wrong, WE have issues with PMDG and FENIX, and we all know that, their "products" are not complete and sometimes bugged and are waiting for updates. If you are happy to pay an incomplete and unassisted "product" you are welcome, but in general the people want quality "products", as you can read in this and in many other online forums and social groups. It's not just me, because when I have a problem on my side with their "products" generally I'll open a support ticket or I'll ask for help in this forum.

18 minutes ago, Claudius_ said:

Wrong, WE have issues with PMDG and FENIX, and we all know that, their "products" are not complete and sometimes bugged and are waiting for updates. If you are happy to pay an incomplete and unassisted "product" you are welcome, but in general the people want quality "products", as you can read in this and in many other online forums and social groups. It's not just me, because when I have a problem on my side with their "products" generally I'll open a support ticket or I'll ask for help in this forum.

Well other than the Fenix "IAE" or the "PMDG" EFB update do you care to list of bugs that you keep stating that exist with those products? Elaborate as those are the two by far airliner products that are used on online networks like vatsim and ivao for MSFS that people trust on those networks including RWP Without a doubt. You saying they are unflyable in anyway or you just think they are overpriced? BTW I have both Fenix and PMDG aircraft but I fly the MD82 more for the challenge. Complaining about some lighting and some texture are not serious bugs you seemed to be more upset about update progress. This is not Captain Sim simulation those products are doing.

Edited September 27, 20232 yr by JBDB-MD80

3 minutes ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Well other than the Fenix "IAE" or the "PMDG" EFB update do you care to list of bugs that you keep stating that exist with those products? Elaborate as those are the two by far airliner products that are used on online networks like vatsim and ivao for MSFS that people trust on those networks including RWP Without a doubt. You saying they are unflyable in anyway or you just think they are overpriced? BTW I have both Fenix and PMDG aircraft but I fly the MD82 more for the challenge. Complaining about some lighting and some texture are not serious bugs.

Wrong, I never told that these "studio level products" are unflyable, and you can search in internet for the long list about the long awaited unsolved bugs.

17 minutes ago, Claudius_ said:

Wrong, I never told that these "studio level products" are unflyable, and you can search in internet for the long list about the long awaited unsolved bugs.

And what you think the developers are not aware of the bugs that people claim are not trying to be resolved by those who make these products. Common sense tells you it takes time its software development if you want it done RIGHT and if not anyone complaining about bugs and barking at developers can try it out for themselves and put in a application to join the development team if they can solve the issue for them and others. Easy isn't it. 

Edited September 27, 20232 yr by JBDB-MD80