Fenix A320 landing technique and general discussion thread

[G550flyer 1,014]

Here's something for your short field work. Now, normally, the protected area of the runway goes up to about 400ft AGL from the ends of the runway. That's why that 400ft number is familiar before making any turns. So, for your short field landings, fly your normal approach at the proper speed aiming at 1000ft or the Capt's bars. Nail the slot by 500ft AGL. Once you reach 300ft AGL, shift your aimpoint to the numbers. Keep your 2 to 3 degree pitch change for the flare, 3 degrees max. If the aircraft and ground effect is done properly, this will put you down right near 500ft down the runway. Note that it's not that different from the normal landing. Normal landings with the 2 to 3 degree pitch change at 20ft AGL should put you down right near your aimpoint of 1000ft. Or 1500ft for a long body heavy. If you nail the text book flare normally, short runways are never a problem. When you get duped into greasing every landing, your normal picture gets thrown off. Once you can consistently touch down with a slightly firm landing at your aimpoint, you can finesse your landings without wasting runway and safety.  

[FormulaJet 32]

I got a better realistic challenge for you, try SBSP-SBRJ 

30min flight done by LATAM in A320, runway is around 1300m , RNAV approach with final turn, it’s like landing on an aircraft carrier

 

 

 

[El Diablito 328]

1 hour ago, FormulaJet said:

try SBSP-SBRJ 

I've done this a couple of times and it's the most difficult approach I've done without a doubt. Once in the A32nx and once with the 738. It's one of those approaches where you need an extra hand in the cockpit to help with lights and flaps etc so you can just concentrate on nailing the landing. It's not ideal for a single crew. Alot of fun though.

[Wolf0 31]

1 hour ago, FormulaJet said:

I got a better realistic challenge for you, try SBSP-SBRJ 

That is true, and probably the shortest runway (SBRJ) where the A320 operates. Only with a caveat. No ordinary A320 operates there. Only those equiped with the SHARP packages (or similar) that allow for lower speeds due to fuselage modifications.

https://www.noticiaslatamsales.com/noticias/january-february-2016/a320neo-sharp-game-changer-brazilian-airlines/

I still recommend Horta for a realistic standard A320 landing at 64500Kg experience 😉

Edited March 17 by Wolf0

[FormulaJet 32]

7 minutes ago, Wolf0 said:

That is true, and probably the shortest runway (SBRJ) where the A320 operates. Only with a caveat. No ordinary A320 operates there. Only those equiped with the SHARP packages (or similar) that allow for lower speeds due to fuselage modifications.

https://www.noticiaslatamsales.com/noticias/january-february-2016/a320neo-sharp-game-changer-brazilian-airlines/

I still recommend Horta for a realistic standard A320 landing at 64500Kg experience 😉

PT-MZZ used to fly there but it is stored now, an A320-232 with IAE engines in TAM livery

Edited March 17 by FormulaJet

[Cpt_Piett 4,695]

3 hours ago, G550flyer said:

My real world techniques are: So of course, 250KT at 10,000. 200KTS by 20NM from the airport. 180KTS on intercept heading/vectors. Slow to approach speed and gear down when G/S starts down on an ILS. Final flaps when the G/S is a dot above. For GPS, fully configured and at approach speed by the FAF. This will resolve any steep approach situation. For non precisions, fully configured and on approach speed by the descent point if you don't have any circling configurations/speeds to maintain. Just ensure to configure accordingly to attain the speeds I mentioned.

Thanks! I'll certainly keep this in mind when doing my next approach. I have the habit of coming in "too hot", delaying flaps1 for as long as possible. Then flaps2 / gear down one dot above.

With the A300, I quickly realised that I had to be fully configured at FAP non-precision, otherwise there's no way to slow her down. 

Btw interesting to see the video shared by @Wolf0 where the A320 comes to a full stop around 700m. But then looking back at my landing in the video, I did come to a full stop before end of Rwy at 970m.

During the flare (in which the main purpose I believe is to soften the landing) - does one normally monitor V/S - or more intuitively do a gentle nose-up while looking at the runway (which makes much more sense to me)? I hear so much talk about this and that V/S at touchdown... In other words: how to be sure the flare is done correctly when not getting any objective information. If that makes sense. 

3 hours ago, FormulaJet said:

I got a better realistic challenge for you, try SBSP-SBRJ 

30min flight done by LATAM in A320, runway is around 1300m , RNAV approach with final turn, it’s like landing on an aircraft carrier

Aah, Santos Dumont, one of my favourites! Done it a few times with the A320 - great fun! Amazing default scenery. Being the type of pushing-the-boundaries guy that I am, I of course also tried squeeze the A300 in there as well 😅 Short runway - big aircraft - I'm in! 

In fact I just grabbed this excellent livery and I'll head over to SBSP for the 200nm or so flight to Rio. 

The weather gave me 20L - should be fun!

In the video from SBRJ shared above, it seems like the flare is initiated just before crossing over the runway.

Edited March 17 by Cpt_Piett

[Cpt_Piett 4,695]

2 hours ago, El Diablito said:

It's not ideal for a single crew.

Was just thinking about this yesterday when the comments started to appear in this thread. Very few of us have an ATPL with a type rating, and we're flying these complex aircraft single-crew. Not very realistic, is it? Especially when doing these types of ultra-challenging approaches...

It's interesting, we've got a handful of these very decent aircraft now, with more true-to-life fidelity as every new iteration comes by. Just speaking for myself, I get a little bit overwhelmed with SOPs, QRH, FCOM and checklist. And I probably only know about 10% of the buttons, switches and knobs in the flight deck. But then again I don't really have the urge to practice doing things the most realistic way (no disrespect to those who does!). I like to practice in order to be able to handle the aircraft reasonable well, and the rest is just... fun. 

Btw I tried the other day (again) with FS2Crew. Quickly terminated it - doesn't sit right with me. 

2 hours ago, Wolf0 said:

I still recommend Horta for a realistic standard A320 landing at 64500Kg experience 😉

Allright, I'll do that one after Santos Dumont 😄

Edited March 17 by Cpt_Piett

[F737MAX 5,612]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

During the flare (in which the main purpose I believe is to soften the landing) - does one normally monitor V/S - or more intuitively do a gentle nose-up while looking at the runway (which makes much more sense to me)? I hear so much talk about this and that V/S at touchdown... In other words: how to be sure the flare is done correctly when not getting any objective information. If that makes sense. 

Look outside at the end of the runway you're landing on. Practice the mental picture of what the pitch attitude and flare should feel like.

Easier said than done though.
Landing is an art more than a science, and it can be a cruel mistress...

 

Edit: I just found this:

Source: https://www.jetskysim.com/a320-operations.html
 

Edited March 17 by F737MAX

[Farlis 2,287]

40 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Was just thinking about this yesterday when the comments started to appear in this thread. Very few of us have an ATPL with a type rating, and we're flying these complex aircraft single-crew. Not very realistic, is it? Especially when doing these types of ultra-challenging approaches...

That's what FS2Crew is for. I have it for the Fenix. It's really good when you don't have to bother setting up the stuff a FO usually does. Especially on VATSIM where I just flew the 737 again and had quite the workload doing everything myself, because I don't have FS2Crew for that one.

 

Classic items I forget: Strobes off after landing, retracting the flaps before taxi in.

Edited March 17 by Farlis

[Cpt_Piett 4,695]

En route to SBRJ and here’s the landing calculation:

I’m planning to be fully configured 10nm out at the latest, ready for final descent from 3000’ to 2200’ at FAP. I think I posted the approach plate above.

The trickiest part is of course flying the visual prescribed track manually with no help from A/THR either. And I’m guessing I won’t have any vertical guidance from FDs. So I’ll turn them off at the latest “waypoint”. That 107 degree turn towards the Rwy while managing speed and descent rate will be… tricky.

Just entered APPR PERF: Vapp 140. Winds 160/15 should give me a decent headwind component.

48nm out… wish me luck

Edited March 17 by Cpt_Piett

[RALF9636 1,969]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Very few of us have an ATPL with a type rating, and we're flying these complex aircraft single-crew. Not very realistic, is it? Especially when doing these types of ultra-challenging approaches...

 

Yes, I can't imagine flying these aircraft without Multi Crew Experience. I have been using it for many years on different platforms and all kinds of airliners. Couldn't do without it. When I ocassionally fly an airliner without MCE - mostly when testing something - it just doesn't feel right and is only half as immersive as with my trusty copilot.

 

[Cpt_Piett 4,695]

5 hours ago, Farlis said:

That's what FS2Crew is for. I have it for the Fenix. It's really good when you don't have to bother setting up the stuff a FO usually does. Especially on VATSIM where I just flew the 737 again and had quite the workload doing everything myself, because I don't have FS2Crew for that one.

Classic items I forget: Strobes off after landing, retracting the flaps before taxi in.

Hmm, I really enjoyed using it with FBW320. But trying it in the Fenix a year after... it felt a bit odd. I'll give it another try as any help at the flight deck would be most welcome 

So.... I just landed at SBRJ 🎉 With plenty of runway in front of me. Botched the 1st attempt as I failed to identify the runway properly*. Luckily I was sensible enough to do a go-around at an early stage (without loosing control of the aircraft).

Following in your footsteps (hand-flying it w/ A/THR off) has given me a new perspective on flying the A320. Heaps of fun for sure, but it's almost like a physical workout! Guess the realism level have to be pretty high for that. It takes a great deal of focus to do this, especially on this type of approach. 

Of course I made a video, but due to the go-around the 26min .mp4 file is more than 15GB... which is gonna take hours to upload. So I'm currently trying to figure out how to do some novice video editing to trim it down to the last couple of minutes.

I'm rambling again, but what a spectacular approach. Buzzing past Cristo Redentor at 5,500ft (TLOD 684 OLOD 756 at steady 80 FPS thanks to AutoFPS) was an almost otherworldly experience... How far this sim has come!

*retrospectively, after having examined the video, it might seem that I got confused by the go-around track on the ND, forgetting that the runway was also shown there...

Edited March 18 by Cpt_Piett

[JBDB-MD80 1,473]

Interesting topic. would love to see someone do a Paro Bhutan VQPR circle approach. I don't have the nerve to do it. I find it more complex than going to SBRJ. Good stuff OP.

Edited March 18 by JBDB-MD80

[G550flyer 1,014]

6 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

During the flare (in which the main purpose I believe is to soften the landing) - does one normally monitor V/S - or more intuitively do a gentle nose-up while looking at the runway (which makes much more sense to me)? I hear so much talk about this and that V/S at touchdown... In other words: how to be sure the flare is done correctly when not getting any objective information. If that makes sense

So, in the real world, you are shifting your view down to the other end of the runway so that you can get a sense of the sink rate. That's all nice with the peripheral and all, but you don't really get that perspective in sim. When I flew the DC10, your flare would get you up to 6 to 8 degrees pitch from a 4.5 pitch. Unfortunately, you didn't have much for peripheral since you are so high up at 6 to 8 degrees. You began to look at the other end and listen to those call outs. Those call outs are money and work well in flight sim. You are looking for that landing cadence. The speed or flow of the cadence will tell you how fast you are sinking causing you to adjust accordingly. Visually, your cadence should look like 50, 40, 30, 20..10....5 touch. 50,40,30,20,10, 5 is obviously a pounder. Yo may bounce and hear 10 again lol. 50, 40, 30, 20..10................5, bang is an over flare, floater and potential drop in pounder. You can easily over flare, float, run out of airspeed and have it drop in firmly. When done correctly, the aircraft flys onto the runway slightly firm right near your aim point. That call out cadence is more useful than the old V/S. After all, that V/S is from a lag instrument and can be easily miss conceived. 

[Cpt_Piett 4,695]

2 hours ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Interesting topic. would love to see someone do a Paro Bhutan circle approach. I don't have the nerve to do it. I find it more complex than going to SBRJ.

That IS a tricky one. Well, the straight-in landing to Rwy 33 is not too bad. What's really tricky is the cloud-breaking RNAV approach (X or Y recommended) w/ a subsequent circling approach into Rwy 15, which takes both skills and practice. The visual maneuvering starts where the RNAV approach ends, more than 3000ft above the runway. Compared to the airports discussed in this thread, the runway is much longer at 2265m. But the altitude is also much higher at 7364ft, introducing some added challenges.

I'd recommend downloading the Paro Airport (VQPR) Remake and Nearby Landmarks, mostly for the included PDF tutorial. This explains the approaches in simple terms, with added pictures. Then just give it a go! It's a sim so nothing bad will happen - other than possibly a blow to one's self-esteem 😉

Now that you brought up Paro, I'll probably go there next! It's been more than a year since I last tried it, and I'd like to think that my flying skills have improved a bit since then 🙂

Well, I'll share it here, continuing in the spirit of showing how things are NOT supposed to be done 😅

EDIT: Just glanced through the video and see that I did a left-hand circuit, while a right hand circuit would have given me a much better final approach. And IIRC @Farlis was quick to suggest I should've done it the other way around 😉 Yes, I still remember!

Also, it seems my video from Santos Dumont is nearly finished uploading, which means I'll post it here soon. I was hoping to cut out the first attempt with the VERY clumsy go-around, but as it turns out, YT will probably finish processing the video quicker than the video editing software will finish just loading it 

2 hours ago, G550flyer said:

Yo may bounce and hear 10 again lol. 50, 40, 30, 20..10................5, bang is an over flare, floater and potential drop in pounder. You can easily over flare, float, run out of airspeed and have it drop in firmly. When done correctly, the aircraft flys onto the runway slightly firm right near your aim point. That call out cadence is more useful than the old V/S. After all, that V/S is from a lag instrument and can be easily miss conceived. 

Thanks for elaborating, inputs like this is gold for a noob simmer. In case of a bounce, would you do a go-around? I guess it would depend on several factors, but it'd be great to hear your professional opinion. 

Finally my video from SBRJ Santos Dumont finished uploading. The whole shebackle (including the clumsy go-around) can be seen here:

For those only interested in the visual approach and the landing, here's a timestamped link

Edited March 18 by Cpt_Piett