23 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Never understood this acronym. My guess is that in this context it doesn't refer to neither Person of Indian Origin, nor Public Information Officer... Pilot Induced Oscillations perhaps?

Yes correct, should have write it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot-induced_oscillation

To give an example:
The elevators on the A320 can usually achieve up to 30°/s (with two servo controls active) but when all four servo controls become active (when demand is high and i.e. in flare mode) they can reach up to 50°/s. That still means that elevator takes 0.94 seconds to go from full up to full down (it has a range of 30 + 17° = 47°). If you then look at the rate of sidestick movement...well...

Additionally, the flare law is a pitch attitude law which means that full back stick commands +18° in pitch and full forward of -22° in pitch which is a lot. See here:
https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/app/themes/mh_newsdesk/documents/archives/a320-prevention-of-tailstrikes.pdf

Here is some information from Airbus how to flare:
https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/a-focus-on-the-landing-flare/
 

Quote

The PF should apply a progressive and gentle back stick order until touchdown. The PF must avoid forward stick inputs once flare is initiated. The PF can gradually release the back stick input if needed. The PF must perform a go-around If a normal touchdown point cannot be reached. Any forward stick input after flare is initiated will increase the risk of landing on NLG with hard impact.

Look here, at 45 ft RA (where flare law becomes active), full forward sidestick order:

 

Thanks @AGuther! During my recent landings I've raised the nose a couple of degrees and then kept it there until touchdown. Seems to work well. Last landing was a few minutes ago at LESO (one of my favourite airports in Spain). Disconnected A/THR and hand-flied the VOR approach. The 1754m runway was "plenty" long enough for a go-around, so I went managed NAV mode after getting stabilized in the initial climb, then whilst in the go-around hold set FL340 and re-routed to Heathrow 😎

Flying into these shorter runways and doing challenging approaches is not only fun, but also great practice!

As I'm doing a lot of go-arounds, often after touching down, I did some research. Found this advice which to me seems logical:

Quote

Go-around close to the ground:

If the decision or the request for a go-around is very late, it is possible that the landing gear will come into contact with the runway (moving the throttles from the Idle position to the TOGA can cause the engines to respond up to 6 seconds after the command is requested and an altitude loss of up to 35 feet). The rotation must then be flexible and measured to prevent the rear part of the aircraft touches the runway (tailstrike). The fact of passing TOGA while the undercarriage of the aircraft is in contact with the runway may possibly trigger temporary alarms of the type configuration that should be ignored.

In the same way, the crew will wait for the airplane to be established on its climb trajectory before retracting a notch of flaps.

One of the biggest pitfalls of the A320 lies in the fact that the go-around mode will only engage if at least one flap notch is extended (= flap lever positioned at position 1 or below).

If, for example, you are under AP, on the final descent of an ILS, smooth aircraft (= flaps 0) and air traffic control asks you to go around, moving the throttles to the TOGA detent will cause a very rapid acceleration of the airplane on its descent trajectory without triggering the go-around procedure. This is absolutely not a situation for the future!

• What happens when a go-around is triggered = throttles pushed to the stop, in the TOGA notch (provided the flaps are not at 0):

• If AP or FD are used SRS and GA TRK (NAV) modes will engage.

• If the AP and FD are not used, the flying pilot will initially seek a 15° pitch attitude, the FD will automatically engage in HDG/VS mode (if the aircraft is equipped with the "Automatic FD Bar Engagement at Go-Around" option),

• If extended, the Speed Brakes will automatically retract (regardless of lever position)

• On the FMS, the go-around procedure becomes the active flight plan and at the end of the go-around maneuver the current trajectory will be linked to the coming approach to be tempted (for a 2nd chance!).

To initiate a go-around, you must therefore:

• Have at least one notch of flaps,

• Going through the TOGA notch of the throttles,

• Have displayed the altitude indicated on the map (example 4000 ft) for the missed approach (API).

The thing I struggle most with, is retracting flaps in a sensible manner after a flaps full landing, especially when the aircraft is at low gross weight. Then speed increase is so rapid that I tend to go straight to flaps 2 after lift-off. 

Edited March 21, 20242 yr by Cpt_Piett

1 hour ago, AGuther said:

Look here, at 45 ft RA (where flare law becomes active), full forward sidestick order:

Wonder what happened here. He's already well below the glideslope. Short runway and contaminated runway? Ground effect setting in and already making him float on such a low approach angle? Not good in any case.

50 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Wonder what happened here.

Oh I don't know. Maybe landing an airliner in gale force winds? PIC had to disconnect ATHR aswell since it could not manage the gusts. 

And to address the self proclaimed TIR's in here, the captain responded in a YT comment why he continued the approach

 

2 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

The thing I struggle most with, is retracting flaps in a sensible manner after a flaps full landing

Use pitch to control speed.

Most go-around procedures take you to 2–4,000 ft. Pitching up to control speed gives you between 40 - 80 seconds at a 3,000 ft/min climb rate if your aircraft is very light.

Placard speeds are:

A visual memo for the procedure:

...in theory, at least.

Some may find it easier said than done... [looks sheepishly in mirror] 😄

1 hour ago, F737MAX said:

Some may find it easier said than done... [looks sheepishly in mirror] 😄

Haha, good to know I'm not the only one! When GW is low, I need to pitch up considerably, but then run into the issue of the aircraft wanting to pitch up too much, so I have to apply a considerable pitch down pressure on the sidestick, to prevent her from "going vertical". If that makes sense. It does take some skill and practice - like everything else discussed in this thread I guess.

 😅

Edited March 22, 20242 yr by Cpt_Piett

12 hours ago, AGuther said:

The PF should apply a progressive and gentle back stick order until touchdown.

The rest of that sentence should read, "In calm conditions" I'm assuming?

I've seen videos of Ryanair pilots flying into runway 28L at EIDW in 737s in December and they're anything but gentle on the yokes. I guess there isn't a "one size fits all" technique to use as conditions will always be the most important factor rather than how "gentle" you need to be on the controls. 

6 hours ago, El Diablito said:

The rest of that sentence should read, "In calm conditions" I'm assuming?

I've seen videos of Ryanair pilots flying into runway 28L at EIDW in 737s in December and they're anything but gentle on the yokes. I guess there isn't a "one size fits all" technique to use as conditions will always be the most important factor rather than how "gentle" you need to be on the controls. 

While it’s clear that calm conditions require different handling than windy and gusty conditions I still think input is totally overdone.

In regards to the Article from Airbus: keep in mind that this is an official information from Airbus to improve safety. In other words: when this information is not there, this is by intention.

In regards to Ryanair: Boeing 737 do not have a fly-by-wire system which has an impact how to fly the plane in general.

21 minutes ago, AGuther said:

Boeing 737 do not have a fly-by-wire system which has an impact how to fly the plane in general.

Of course, it was just a throw away comment based on the 747 video which also uses a yoke.

It's interesting none the less and having watched that video several times it seems like it was a high intensity moment for the pilot.

Another hazardous landing in a place probably never visited by an A320. This time at ENST in the district of Helgeland, Northern Norway.

Landing calculations:

To make things a bit harder for myself, I decided to attempt a go-around after touchdown. A little bit nerve-wracking, but mostly great fun!

Ah yes, the music... Guess I always dreamt of being a fighter pilot 😆

Edited March 23, 20242 yr by Cpt_Piett

Although this thread has gone very quiet, I'll share my Tivat LYTV NDB 14 approach here, in case anyone finds it useful. I should probably use a microphone, but I don't have one at the moment. Instead, I included on-screen guidance using text. From video description:

Quote

The Tivat runway 14 NDB approach is for sure a challenging one. It puts a high workload on the pilot, especially so when no PM (pilot monitoring) is available in the sim. Thus, it requires full attention to maintain situational awareness at all times.

The trickiest part of the approach is the visual maneuvering towards the runway, requiring a bank angle up to 30 degrees. Judging the descent rate during this critical phase is tricky, as visual contact with the runway is not possible at the same time as monitoring the flight instruments. A head tracking device like TrackIR would be very useful here.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXVOgL6EuuQ

Edited March 25, 20242 yr by Cpt_Piett

It’s very software dependent in the sim. Fenix block 2 is butter compared with previous versions when I am using the same technique. 

What I actually experience is that if you're slightly below Vapp the elevator feel during flare is really heavy. resulting often in a firm landing.

Where as if you are just above Vapp it's really responsive and light on the tough which causes me almost to float. I must say that with Block 2 i've had more butter smooth landings than i had before. 

 

7 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Although this thread has gone very quiet, I'll share my Tivat LYTV NDB 14 approach here, in case anyone finds it useful. I should probably use a microphone, but I don't have one at the moment. Instead, I included on-screen guidance using text. From video description:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXVOgL6EuuQ

THANK YOU!!!!

Inspiring (will try it in Airlinetools FlightDeck A320 and in XP12 with the Toliss 320 NEO!!!)... Thanks for sharing and congratulations for your very professional technique !!! Those RW pilot youtubers wouldn't do it better, I guess 🙂

BTW: Your Youtube channel saved in my Favourites 🙂

Edited March 25, 20242 yr by jcomm

On 3/21/2024 at 2:28 AM, Cpt_Piett said:

Biggest challenge was actually maintaining visual contact with the runway while doing the final turn along the beach.

For things like that VR is unbeatable.