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Paul J

FS11 with all slider right could this be the answer

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All "hardcore simmers" know how and what to tweak and where to go (like forums here at avsim to find out this info) to make FS work the way they like it. They also know that they are a small part of the overall target market as well.Since we rely on this vast range of users with all their different computer systems to keep our beloved hobby going forward, why not code FS11 to configure all sliders to have limits based on a few system scans when installing.What got me thinking was how we can edit auto gen to remove the amount of trees or buildings. In this forum there are many post stating that the auto gen in FSX at min. are far more items then FS9 at max. So we go into our config file and scale back buildings or trees to our liking.Well how about this. When installing FS11 the app does a system scan of CPU, GPU, Ram etc and uses the info to create the sliders based on what the computer can deliver. It would allow for all users to have the sliders to the right where we feel they should be.Since some of those users are gamers of Xbox or completely out of the loop, they wouldn't know that FS is different in delivering a product that is designed to be enjoyed in the future as much as current release date. A required system list would then be based what MS feels is needed to get a good example of FS to be. Wouldnt want to compromise have FS look as if all sliders were left in FSX for example. So the required system list would be made to have good textures and some eye-candy enough so that all features are present. So after the install the end users has FS running smooth and their visuals might differ from their neighbors. But since most end users are consider Joe Public and not a hardcore simmer they wouldn't know that because they dont look at other peoples screen shots or go on other peoples systems to compare. Al they know is what they have on their system. And since all screen shots on the box and posted are under only minium required specs..theres nothing they've seen that doesnt reflect whats in their sim. The hardcore simmer would know and would come to FSInsider, or an ACEs blog or a forum like here and find out where in the config file it is to up the sliders and bring FS to its full potential compromising Frames but with the understanding of that and knowing what they are doing.The end result would be that everyone starts off with a smooth sim and those who edit the sliders to get more of something can decided what they feel is acceptable in eye-candy vs fps.FS gets great reviews and we all win.Yes? No?

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Such a "scan" already takes place, and FSX is pre-configured to perform close to what the user's hardware & OS are capable of achieving......but no, this doesn't mean "all sliders to the right." That would completely defeat the purpose of the sliders, which is to allow the user to gradually increase them as their hardware and/or software improvements will allow.Fortunately, for most users, this scheme works pretty much as intended by ACES.Unfortunately, for the so-called "hardcore simmers," they immediately slam all sliders to the far right and then try to "tweak" their system to force performance to match the slider settings... :-roll What you are suggesting is a mere "psychological ploy" that wouldn't fool the "hardcore simmers" for a instant... :-lol

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Thanks Bill for the reply but your last part wasnt what I was getting at "What you are suggesting is a mere "psychological ploy" that wouldn't fool the "hardcore simmers" for a instant... :-lol "Without the vast sells of the general public our hobby could be at stake. My opinion. It is also my opinion that FSX might of done more harm than good to this market in the short term. My dad called me from a store to ask should he buy FSX which was on sale and I had no clear answer for him.Had he not had me to tell him about the patch and the auto-gen problem prior to the patch not sure if he would be using it today nor buying the next version. This is where I was going. Those who are so use to console games that run smooth based on a set format or those who don't think to search for updates, etc.Not trying to fool anyone and dont view that from you as a harsh word either. Hopefully FS11 will be a flawless program from the begining but the idea was a way to make all the different home computer at least start off having FS running smooth then allow for the hardcore simmer to up the features on his own behalf.General public or hardcore simmer, its kind of hard not to max out the sliders and see what it looks like only to realize you cant have it that way when they dont have the hardware yet as been the case in past versions. Then to have to scale it so far back on low end systems is kind of like salt in the wound. All I was doing was removing that set-up for disappointment for those on low end systems.

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"Without the vast sells of the general public our hobby could be at stake."Microsoft has stated that fsx is the best selling edition ever of any of the the fs series-so I don't think our hobby is at stake.I do agree it would be nice not to have all these patches and operating system changes-but that is life right now.The disappointment from low end system users maxing sliders has been around since sliders were introduced by fuIII in the 1990's. I don't think that will ever change.It is true-there was much less strife when fs came out with no sliders at all-but then the sim was less interesting also. :-)http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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FSX does do a system scan to set up your initial graphics. It uses the scan to help generate its intro movie. For many people, such as myself, the scan somehow missed that I was using a graphics card in my computer, and so made a very bad automatic setup.That being said, the slider system as it stands is very complicated. I've been thinking about this for a long time. My conclusion is that FSX is a lot like Windows XP. When XP was first released, it provided drivers for just about every system configuration imaginable. You could plug in almost any device, and XP would find a way to work it, or at least that was the plan. The problem was that there is such a wide variety of stuff that XP had a hard time keeping up. In trying to please everyone, XP got bogged down trying to solve every driver issue. Making an operating system (or a game engine) that has total flexibility puts too much of a strain on the end user.Vista, on the other hand, supports a much narrower range of options. The idea is that by keeping track of a limited inventory of drivers, Vista can run more smoothly with more efficient updates as needed. You don't have to re-invent the wheel every time you plug in a new device. I would not be surprised if FS11 followed this philosphy, and shied away from such a complicated, yet flexible set-up as FSX. Train Sim 2 ought to provide some insight as to how this might be accomplished.That's my opinion, anyways, and it may nor may not coincide with an official opinion AVSIM has on this topic, if any.Jeff ShylukAssistant Managing EditorSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

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All together now:"10 FPS at RTM on a top of the line system is perfectly fine":-roll

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>All together now:>>"10 FPS at RTM on a top of the line system is perfectly fine">>:-roll Shoot, I got waaay more than that on RTM, and with pretty good settings, too. So I will :-roll right back... :)RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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. . and the results of the scan are in your fsx.cfg, as below:(Main)PerfBucket=6Different pcs will have a lesser or greater number.

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I think it's been gone over (at least) half a billion times that a game or sim or whatever shouldn't be judged by a number. If it looks smooth and good to YOU, then it's fine. I only wonder how many happy FSX users suddenly became unhappy only when they pushed Shift+Z twice :)If I got 1FPS and the sim was smooth as silk, I could care less. Just my two cents

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Set the limiter to 1 fps and get then get back to me on how much you enjoyed it.

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I think the way to accomplish you is to set the GUI to realistically limit the detail of the sim to the capabilities at max settings to the top of the line hardware available at time of release. With the flexibility to increase these levels via the config file, or maybe a external utility program for future hardware advances. This solves both issues, people with current top notch hardware doesn't get a slide show at release at max settings, while still maintaining flexibility to add detail as more capable hardware becomes available. The main performance issue for FSX was the detail at max GUI settings were greater than the best PC's at time of release could handle, giving the impression that FSX didn't perform as it should.

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>Microsoft has stated that fsx is the best selling edition ever>of any of the the fs series-so I don't think our hobby is at>stake.I'm using FSX with the FA18 and having a blast with lower setting. :) However IMO, best selling has nothing to do with satisfaction, meeting user expectations or best FS ever. The marketing department of MS delivered more than ACES could :). There are full page ad's in Popular Science and many other magazines I have never seen FS advertising. Chalk the record sales up to marketing. Bob...

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