Stutters Ruining Enjoyment

[Sethos 4,603]

53 minutes ago, Noel said:

Then something else is amiss on both of your systems as there is no subjective latency whatsoever.  RTSS async is wretched, and no other locking schemes produced the subjective impression w/ edge sync does and that's not just my take.   This 'as just moving the mouse feels like it's moving through molasses' is just flat out laughable.

Not sure what's different for you and the OP, but none of that happens here, with or without FG.  Here's another anecdote from someone who tried Edge Sync for the first time and there are others, using FG.  I wonder what's different for you and the OP...

 

>>Hey Noel,

Hope all is well and that you are enjoying your new 4090....

RTSS

FPS - 80

Front Edge Sync

I just departed Liverpool airport in the Fenix with FSLTL and ran CapFrameX for 15 minutes, Overall I am pretty pleased. The smoothness is beyond exceptional locked at 80FPS.

One thing I did stumble on is that when I enabled the NVIDIA filters it messed with my FTV so I turned them back off

No, it's simply you and the others who can't feel the additional latency added. I was incorrect in one thing, it's not frame latency RTSS adds, also why your CapFrameX results are completely worthless in this discussion. It's overall PC render latency that is increased when you use RTSS with FG. For the casual user, it may feel smooth and the frame delivery is still smooth but there's absolutely a bigger overhead, ranging between 20 and almost 60ms! Exact reason why the mouse movement feels so sluggish.

(Off-screen because nothing will capture the Nvidia overlay)

FPS capped with Nvidia Control Panel;

Capped with RTSS Front Edge Sync;

And that will be sailing all over the place.

And again, I will state this in bold; THE VERY DEVELOPERS of the program you keep peddling on this forum have said RTSS is not compatible, exactly because of the above; it adds a lot of latency and in other games, a lot of stutters; https://twitter.com/CapFrameX/status/1620511329416265728 They also suggest using Nvidia's control panel to cap; https://twitter.com/CapFrameX/status/1620514721534476288

A simple Google search will confirm RTSS is not compatible and is generally suggested NOT to be used with FG because it adds a lot of latency or in some cases, completely kills performance. It's universally known at this point.

So before you post another worthless CapFrameX graph or quotes from your converts, install the Nvidia overlay and confirm it for yourself.

[Noel 4,565]

Don't need to I've run DLSS FG many times w/ the rate capped at 60 or 70 or 80 and there is no subjective latency so all of your or anyone's theory doesn't mean squat when there is no subjective latency experience.  There is NO MOUSE SLUGGISHNESS.  Get it yet?  Nope?  You're stuck in theory and not reality.  You might see it on an overlay, but if it's under the radar it's irrelevant.  Those worthless CFX captures completely corroborate subjectively exquisitely smooth animation.  I first witnessed the animation well before I ever knew about CFX, and learned no other locking device matched either the subjective experience nor the CFX capture.  You can believe whatever you wish but I guarantee you this does not apply to all users.

[sultanofswing 70]

Frame Gen itself add significant overall system latency, it's factual and cannot be disproven.

Luckily MSFS is a very slow paced Simulator so that added system latency is basically un noticeable but in a fast paced First person shooter it is very noticeable.

[Noel 4,565]

Put this in your pipe and smoke it...

[sultanofswing 70]

Once again you are showing render latency not system latency.

Also looking at your older post's you seem to believe that smoothness and Latency are the same thing. 
They are not, yes your sim may be smooth but once you turn on Frame Gen you add system latency, it cannot be avoided.

 

[wim123 765]

wow, am i glad i am on the xbox, with all its limitations, but hey no finetuning or whatever.

i am too old for that, just flying.

[Sethos 4,603]

You are some piece of work Noel.

Every single thread you're in, you shove CapFrameX down the throat of people to a point where it's getting obnoxious. You keep posting your inane results at every chance you get, telling people to download CapFrameX! Do what you did! Everyone else is doing the sim wrong! Your smoothness is objectively better than others! and you simply refuse to let up until you've forced your agenda (remember when you started badgering me in private messages because you couldn't force that on me?). The way you deny a very well-known problem with RTSS. A problem that even the developers of the very software you are using confirms and straight up say; don't use it, because it's not compatible, you flat out ignore because it doesn't conform with the agenda in your head. When someone finally tells you to test something, confirm the results, the very thing you do in every single thread you get the chance, you are brazen enough to say 'Oh I don't need to' when you clearly have no idea what you're actually doing. In the very post you respond to, I say it's not frame render latency and then you, embarrassingly, post a screenshot of frame latency like "Hah, look at how smart I am. I gotchu!". I am completely embarrassed at how technically inept you are, it's clear you don't have any actual interest or knowledge on this subject other than forcing your way of doing things onto people. At this point, I would even question any results you posted, because you have become so hellbent on forcing your agenda, I'd worry you would tamper with them or even lie, that is how little I think of you at this point.

And knowing your setup, from the multitude of posts you've made, I know you've spoken of 36FPS being the holy grail, which also tells me you probably can't even feel the 50-60ms of added PC latency and that is why you so vehemently pretend you can't feel it -- Or rather, you really can't feel it, which is worrying, because you've put smoothness above all else.

It is clear you have no interest in actually understanding all the aspects what you are doing, have no real broad technical knowledge of what you're messing with, nor any real interest in actually providing people with all the proper information. This has become a neurotic obsession for you and you will fight it tooth and nail to not potentially shatter your little smoothness bubble.

And again, I underscore the very amusing part in all of this; the very developers of the software you so desperately cling on to, say RTSS is not compatible and recommend not using it with CapFrameX and Frame Generation. The DEVELOPERS. Yet again, this point does not conform with the world view in your head, you refuse to actually test the claim and just get right back on track of saying how wrong everyone else it and it must clearly be their computers. It's completely tragi-comic

But alas, it won't end here. You will, again, refute the claim, not do any relevant tests, post the same completely useless CapFrameX graph for the umpteenth time showing you haven't understood a thing and Noel's CapFrameX circus will continue. Have a fine day Noel and I genuinely feel sorry for all the future unsuspecting individuals who will have to face yet another CapFrameX gospel session from a guy who clearly has no interest in furthering his knowledge on the subject.

[McDaniel 53]

Noel...Sethos...

There is help for you both, please consider seeing a therapist, it's obvious both of you are obsessed! 

Just kidding 😂

I really don't think it needs to get personal, both have a opinion on things and if it works for you so what. No need for a privat war out of my perspective. 

I personally use the same approach as Noel, for me personally, smoothness is the holy grail, and in msfs2020 I don't feel or see a draw back. Msfs2020 has never been so smooth and performent like these days. 

Nothing beats the immersion of hand flying a Ils approach into a busy airport without any performance issues. 🥰

Please be nice to each other...at the end it's a hobby. ♥️

McDan out 

[GSalden 4,709]

“ All roads lead to Rome…”

Fs translation : everyone might have a different approach in getting the best flightsim for him/her

✈️

 

[Paul K 1,402]

On 5/11/2024 at 3:42 AM, alr5100 said:

I am having a consistent micro stutter on short final ...

Around 500 feet all the way to touch down I get these stutters which really ruins an otherwise beautiful flight with incredibly smooth performance.

 

 

 

It seems what you are suffering is exactly what is shown here - stuttering on finals after a smooth flight. If you have the time, watch this because it did wonders for me. I follow all of this procedure whenever I update my driver too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vvi7cZhLcw

Edited May 12 by Paul K

[tfm 196]

2 hours ago, Paul K said:

 

It seems what you are suffering is exactly what is shown here - stuttering on finals after a smooth flight. If you have the time, watch this because it did wonders for me. I follow all of this procedure whenever I update my driver too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vvi7cZhLcw

Noooo please not another of those long-winded videos replete with ads and cheerful banter! Nearly 10 minutes in this video for what presumably is a checklist of steps that would take 20 seconds to read.

Could you just write a list of the steps needed?

[Paul K 1,402]

2 minutes ago, tfm said:

Noooo please not another of those long-winded videos replete with ads and cheerful banter! Nearly 10 minutes in this video for what presumably is a checklist of steps that would take 20 seconds to read.

Could you just write a list of the steps needed?

Yep, I know exactly what you mean, but really, it's not that long winded. Get an ad blocker, watch it, and write down the steps yourself. If you do the writing-down, you'll remember what to do next time. 😉 

First time I did it, I was pleasantly surprised - one of those rare YouTube MSFS tech help videos that works, at least for me.

[Noel 4,565]

14 hours ago, Sethos said:

It's overall PC render latency that is increased when you use RTSS with FG. For the casual user, it may feel smooth and the frame delivery is still smooth but there's absolutely a bigger overhead, ranging between 20 and almost 60ms! Exact reason why the mouse movement feels so sluggish.

There is no mouse sluggishness here, and apparently those other 'casual users' (i.e., the one's not focused on latency overlays) don't experience this either.

7 hours ago, McDaniel said:

I personally use the same approach as Noel, for me personally, smoothness is the holy grail, and in msfs2020 I don't feel or see a draw back. Msfs2020 has never been so smooth and performent like these days. 

Gee whiz how do you cope with dragging the mouse thru molasses?  That must be so frustrating do you have to plan your mouse moves 60ms in advance? 🤣

 

 

Edited May 12 by Noel

[AnkH 2,282]

3 hours ago, tfm said:

Could you just write a list of the steps needed?

Its in the video comments, six steps.

[Noel 4,565]

10 hours ago, sultanofswing said:

Once again you are showing render latency not system latency.

Also looking at your older post's you seem to believe that smoothness and Latency are the same thing. 
They are not, yes your sim may be smooth but once you turn on Frame Gen you add system latency, it cannot be avoided.

 

Sean, it's all GFE overlay would show when I chose Latency with how I'm setup, not sure why.   I understand input latency very well it's a simple concept, it's just clearly under the radar for this slow paced flight sim as was mentioned here.  Moreover, there is no mouse sluggishness here, and I'm not lying to mislead anyone one.  I move the mouse and the pointer moves, just like it did w/o DLSS FG enabled.  If it moves 60-80ms later than when my hand made it move it's just irrelevant, does not come into play, whereas ultra smooth stutter free animation always comes into play.

Yep, it's super smooth as it's been now since getting on to RTSS Edge Sync some year and a half ago.  I don't use FG except on rare occasions for night flights as I can't stand the flickering that happens under certain lighting conditions typically worse on light toned taxiways.  Plus, as someone using a 2nd screen I'm not fond of the screen judder that happens when you make the main MSFS screen active after having the 2nd display active, and I'm literally constantly interacting w/ the 2nd screen as I keep SLC's windows open there, as well as LNM and the browser.  Now that I can easily sustain 45fps everywhere in any plane, we're close enough to golden.  My guess is this flicker I refer to will be resolved in a subsequent MSFS SU and/or GPU driver revision.