Real life pilots, is phraseology in BeyondATC ok to follow?

[martinboehme 582]

6 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Edit: The pilot/co-pilot in BeyondATC says "Wilco, N172SB" and the instructor in that blog says that Wilco "is not standard phraseology. Usually if you're complying with something it's probably a clearance or assignment, which you have to had read back anyway."

Wilco is standard phraseology, but relatively rarely used, and it's true that it shouldn't be used in this case. A clearance always need to be read back in full.

Where "wilco" is most typically used is if you're asked to report something. "N172SB, report ready for departure." "N172SB, wilco." For many "report" requests, though, it's beter to read them back in full too, though - for example, if you're being asked to report a position, where there might be adverse consequences if you understood the wrong position to report.

[Fiorentoni 4,478]

31 minutes ago, rjquick said:

'Active runway' is a hole in the Swiss cheese.

Indeed it is. Always be as concrete as possible during radio communications.

[Bobsk8 12,951]

43 minutes ago, RandallR said:

Not exactly sure what you're saying here, Bob,  I'm calling for the current active on Unicom to verify the actual runway in use for this very reason - this is to mitigate danger.

Not the way I was taught to fly. You stated that when you flew into an uncontrolled field you asked Unicomm for the "active runway". Suppose nobody was on Unicomm at that particular airfield? I was taught to monitor Unicomm, overfly field above pattern altitude, check the windsock, figure out which runway was preferred due to winds, and then announce that I was entering the pattern, on left  or right traffic, downwind for runway X. All this time I would monitor Unicomm to see if anyone else was in my area, and what they were doing. 

Edited May 12 by Bobsk8

[prolixindec 28]

Former airline pilot here. Agree with the hole in the swiss cheese. It's non-standard, and best avoided. That said, people do say it occasionally, and 99% of the time everyone knows what you mean so there isn't an operational problem. But that 1%, there can be confusion, which is why it's best to mention the runway. 

Even if a controller told me to "Taxi to  the active," I would read back "Taxying to Runway 09L" (or whatever), which helps with situational awareness for everyone listening, and gives the controller an opportunity to correct me if I was about to make a mistake. At uncontrolled airports, I would always mention the runway--that way, if there's confusion, at least I'm not making things worse.

In sum: "taxi to the active" is not standard, but it's still used from time to time. As good practice though I wouldn't recommend it. (Note: I've only flown in the USA.)

As an aside, most (or even virtually all) of the real-world non-standard phrases come from pilots. Controllers in contrast are very disciplined about saying proper things. Pilots can be all over the place--saying "roger" when they mean "wilco" or "affirmative," and on and on. Controllers at busy airports or Centers always have a supervisor literally at arm's length, which probably contributes to their radio discipline.

 

 

Edited May 12 by prolixindec

[prolixindec 28]

Also, this is now really an aside, but:

"Roger" means I understood your last transmission. (Example: "N12345, an A330 at your altitude reported moderate turbulence 20 miles ahead." "Roger.")

"Wilco" means I will comply with your last instruction. (Example: N12345, turn left 5 degrees for spacing into O'Hare." "Wilco." Of course, a full readback is more proper.)

"Affirmative" means yes. (N12345, do you have the traffic ahead in sight?" "Affirmative.")

 

 

Edited May 12 by prolixindec

[martinboehme 582]

21 minutes ago, prolixindec said:

"Affirmative" means yes. (N12345, do you have the traffic ahead in sight?" "Affirmative.")

Just a small point: It used to be "affirmative", but it's now just "affirm" to reduce the risk of confusion with "negative" if the first part of the word is clipped.

[RandallR 451]

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Not the way I was taught to fly. You stated that when you flew into an uncontrolled field you asked Unicomm for the "active runway". Suppose nobody was on Unicomm at that particular airfield?

You and I were taught the same thing, as often Unicom wasn't active at the field at that time or the person monitoring (many times one person at a small field) had stepped away.  However, I was also taught to request "winds & active" in the first call-up in case someone was on-station.  If there was no one there I would announce my position, my intent and overfly the field in the exact way you described.

I was responding (in my initial post) to the O.P. regarding when the term "active runway" might be used.

[The Flight Level 2,126]

6 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Uncontrolled Field in the US, you announce your intentions on Unicomm, and active runway is meaningless, unless you specify which runway you are going to use. 

Yes, on the unicom freq for the airport you will ask for the active RWY. Obviously in the pattern you are stating your RWY intentions. After exiting the runway, some will just say, “clear of the active” or “clear of all runways”

[Lonesome Cowboy Burt 190]

UK Farm strip,  no ground radio make traffic calls (safety com, roughly equivelent to unicom but not exactly the same usage)...overhead join...look at windsock..decide runway..continue traffic calls (descending deadside etc) ..land, find the kettle

[ryanbatc 13,114]

There's really no phraseology that pilots need to use, whereas ATC have certain ways we need to say things.  For USA flying I'd listen to LIVE ATC.net to get a feel for things.  I assume other areas of tht world are covered on there?

Generally though, the best phraseology is the clearest and quickest way you can say something.

[G550flyer 1,052]

One thing to keep in mind is to be as clear as possible. In today's environment, there has been an increase in incursions, at least in the USA. I started in USAF aviation and by habit I want you to know who I am, what I am, where I am and my intentions. To this day I still respond in a military way as it's ingrained in my mind. The only time I shorten my communication is when told to. For example, in places like KATL, at times they just want your call sign in response when following taxi instructions. 

[Bobsk8 12,951]

1 hour ago, The Flight Level said:

Yes, on the unicom freq for the airport you will ask for the active RWY. Obviously in the pattern you are stating your RWY intentions. After exiting the runway, some will just say, “clear of the active” or “clear of all runways”

If you are the only one approaching the uncontrolled field which has happened to me on numerous occasions, when you "ask for the active runway" on Unicomm,  all you will hear is silence.😉

[Greazer 1,355]

Recommend to watch the YouTube video by flightdeck2sim with BeyondATC. He's a real world 737 Captain.

[The Flight Level 2,126]

3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

If you are the only one approaching the uncontrolled field which has happened to me on numerous occasions, when you "ask for the active runway" on Unicomm,  all you will hear is silence.😉

Yes, once in a while no response! Then you fly over the field to check the windsock! Occasionally someone else in the vicinity will chime in on the active. Often the choice is pretty obvious at your destination (based on your departure ) unless the winds have done a 180!

[Bobsk8 12,951]

2 minutes ago, The Flight Level said:

Yes, once in a while no response! Then you fly over the field to check the windsock! Occasionally someone else in the vicinity will chime in on the active. Often the choice is pretty obvious at your destination (based on your departure ) unless the winds have done a 180!

That is what I said in my post above.,..