Real life pilots, is phraseology in BeyondATC ok to follow?

[WestAir 2,530]

When contacting Ground after receiving ATIS, I request taxi to the active for (pattern, or direction of departure from field). They always give me instructions to a specific runway, and from then on that's what I read back. But that initial call I always ask for the active because ATIS will have multiple runways being used for departure.

Atis: "Landing and Departing Runways 12L and 12R... advise on initial contact you have Alpha."
Me: "Tiny Airport Ground, Cessna 9572 Hotel at Echo Ramp requesting taxi to the active for the pattern with Alpha."
Ground: "72 Hotel, Tiny Airport Ground, taxi to 12L at Charlie 6 via Alpha, Bravo."
Me: "Taxi to 12L at Charlie 6 via Alpha, Bravo. 92 Hotel."

If the field only has one departing runway in use, I just request taxi to that one on initial contact. For an uncontrolled field I just tell people on UNICOM where I'm going with specific runway numbers. For approach you'd never use active because either on an IFR approach the approach controller is assigning it or when VFR you just call for a full stop and the tower tells you what runway and pattern entry to use.

So in my real world life, I only use "active" for that one singular purpose, but I end up using it almost daily. Obligatory "I'm in the USA and most every other place does not follow our crazy phraseology or procedures."

Edited May 13 by WestAir

[Dave_YVR 1,000]

 While not a real world pilot, I am in my 30th year of ATC. The first half was IFR Center and the second half has been IFR/VFR Tower.

You will find phraseology quite different between Canada and the US. From your initial post and screenshot as well as the common replies so far hearing pilots requesting taxi to the active is pretty rare for the most part.

 The thing that stands out to me is that the reply from the ATC in Canada at least should have included their function as well as the info in a very standardized format. Yours showed "N172SB, runway 07 taxi via A". At any towered Canadian airport you would have gotten something very similar to  "N172SB, ground. Runway 07, altimeter XXXX , taxi A". The use of via in the taxi route is often omitted depending on where you are operating.

 I can guarantee that this is only the tip of the needle into a very large pool when it comes to differences between regions. How well BATC manages between them all will and should be a huge factor in it's success. 

Edited May 13 by Dave_YVR

[BrianW 126]

I see a lot of reference to Unicom but I assume you all mean CTAF.  Unicom is intended more for calling the FBOs to request fuel, parking, etc.

Where I fly we are required to readback runways and hold short instructions, if you don't the controller will request you do. There is no such thing as an active runway at an uncontrolled airport, the runway you choose is completely at the pilot's discretion.  All calls should include the runway you intend to use in your position reports. 

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

I think the only time I've ever used the term "active" to refer to a runway is when making the CTAF call "clear of the active" at a single runway airport - and even that isn't really correct. 

There is zero chance I would move the airplane after receiving a clearance at a controlled field to "taxi to the active".  Tell me which runway you expect me to go to.  "The active" is far too ambiguous as a clearance, even at a single runway airport. 

Nothing wrong with asking either unicom or CTAF for the runway in use; it could save you the trouble of having to overfly and then go way out to enter on the 45 (remember, no longer do we descend into the pattern, join on a midfield cross wind, or enter the pattern in any other way except a 45 to downwind.). If you don't get an answer, that probably means there's no one in the pattern or getting ready to take off, so it's your choice.  You'll know the winds of course... Unless you're going to a private strip, there's hardly any airport out there without some form of automated wx reporting these days.

[Tuskin38 6,667]

16 hours ago, Dave_YVR said:

 While not a real world pilot, I am in my 30th year of ATC. The first half was IFR Center and the second half has been IFR/VFR Tower.

You will find phraseology quite different between Canada and the US. From your initial post and screenshot as well as the common replies so far hearing pilots requesting taxi to the active is pretty rare for the most part.

 The thing that stands out to me is that the reply from the ATC in Canada at least should have included their function as well as the info in a very standardized format. Yours showed "N172SB, runway 07 taxi via A". At any towered Canadian airport you would have gotten something very similar to  "N172SB, ground. Runway 07, altimeter XXXX , taxi A". The use of via in the taxi route is often omitted depending on where you are operating.

 I can guarantee that this is only the tip of the needle into a very large pool when it comes to differences between regions. How well BATC manages between them all will and should be a huge factor in it's success. 

You could consider giving phraseology feedback to them on their discord.

[RandallR 451]

54 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Nothing wrong with asking either unicom or CTAF for the runway in use; it could save you the trouble of having to overfly and then go way out to enter on the 45

I believe we were taught to do this for that very reason.  Most of us flying out of my home field in those days rarely announced our position (under moderate conditions) - we all knew the "active" for that period.  However, I would have certainly recommended that a visiting pilot make the call, especially on a crosswind day.

Many times the pattern would be empty... BUT, the next hour there would be 7 aircraft in the pattern - you better know the proper entry!

[Danno 198]

19 hours ago, Dave_YVR said:

 I can guarantee that this is only the tip of the needle into a very large pool when it comes to differences between regions. How well BATC manages between them all will and should be a huge factor in it's success. 

This is worth repeating. Given there is no ‘one size fits all’ across the globe, I think we should all expect BATC may have phrases that are not 100% in every region. A real world commercial pilot flying from North America to Europe understands there will be differences and so should we. 

[WestAir 2,530]

3 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

I think the only time I've ever used the term "active" to refer to a runway is when making the CTAF call "clear of the active" at a single runway airport

So I've seen this a lot in this thread and I'm baffled. You have more time than me so I have to know how you word your radio call after you finished your $600 burger at the Class C, ATIS says "...landing and departing Runway 14L and 14R." and you call ground for taxi instructions? How do you know if Ground is going to send you to 14L or 14R on your initial call?

Do you just omit the runway request all together? (I.E. "Requesting taxi for northbound departure" vs "Requesting Taxi to the active for northbound departure.")

 6 hours ago, BrianW said:

I see a lot of reference to Unicom but I assume you all mean CTAF.  Unicom is intended more for calling the FBOs to request fuel, parking, etc.

Thanks for the correction and not calling me out by name, haha! No excuse, I have more time calling CTAF than most pilots have TT and I still mixed it up there. Embarrassing. ☹️

 

Edited May 13 by WestAir

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

17 minutes ago, WestAir said:

Do you just omit the runway request all together? (I.E. "Requesting taxi for northbound departure" vs "Requesting Taxi to the active for northbound departure.")

Yup.  "Stearman xx809, east ramp, taxi for departure to the north with alpha.". If I want a particular runway, I'll add it as a request ("taxi for northbound departure with alpha, request 32".). Usually, ATC is already going to give you the most convenient runway so if that's the only consideration there's no reason to make a request, but there might be other operational considerations (too heavy for the closest runway, unwilling to accept even a light tailwind in a taildragger etc.) 

[Dave_YVR 1,000]

25 minutes ago, WestAir said:

How do you know if Ground is going to send you to 14L or 14R on your initial call?

Do you just omit the runway request all together?

 You request taxi for departure or just ready to taxi. 

Edited May 13 by Dave_YVR

[WestAir 2,530]

32 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Yup.  "Stearman xx809, east ramp, taxi for departure to the north with alpha.". If I want a particular runway, I'll add it as a request ("taxi for northbound departure with alpha, request 32".). Usually, ATC is already going to give you the most convenient runway so if that's the only consideration there's no reason to make a request, but there might be other operational considerations (too heavy for the closest runway, unwilling to accept even a light tailwind in a taildragger etc.) 

 

29 minutes ago, Dave_YVR said:

 You request taxi for departure or just ready to taxi. 

Roger that! Thanks you two. I was taught to emphasize where I wanted to taxi in case it was from ramp to ramp or something but I think I'm going to adopt your method and omit active from my vocabulary.

Had a guy last week give me a good explanation on why I should never use "to" and "for" in my radio calls: So instead of saying "New York Approach, N9572H, 4000 descending to 2000" omit the 2 and say "...4000 descending 2000" as "to" and "for" can be confused with 2 and 4.

There's always more to learn.

Edited May 13 by WestAir

[Dave_YVR 1,000]

8 minutes ago, WestAir said:

in case it was from ramp to ramp

In that case or anything unusual, then for sure you would want to let ground know that you are looking to relocate from and to.  

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

When one Discord buddy got certified to work Ground on Vatsim and was on his own for the first time, we badly wanted to load up and try out the self driving tug feature of the 737, by calling and asking for MX repositions to and from the most random, little used, out of the way places on his airport.  We didn't do it... But it would have been fun.

[The Flight Level 2,121]

I should add we use the term “active runway” daily at Brantford likely because we have 3 runways. The wind will sometimes split 2 runways and therefore pilots call in asking for the active runway if they hear no traffic calls prior to landing. There are also many helicopters that fly in from Waterloo/Kitchener for practice training and they too will call Brantford Unicom and ask for the current active runway and then practice their circuits on one of the two “inactive runways”. All calls are made on the Brantford Unicom frequency stating “Brantford traffic” and their runway number intentions.  It is not uncommon to have the active runway switch 2 or 3 times during the day between RWY 29 and RWY 23 when the winds are swirling out of the northwest. Sometimes RNAV procedures are performed on RWY 23/05 while the “active” is a different runway. The life of an uncontrolled airport.

[Prpn 366]

On 5/12/2024 at 11:20 PM, ryanbatc said:

There's really no phraseology that pilots need to use, whereas ATC have certain ways we need to say things.  For USA flying I'd listen to LIVE ATC.net to get a feel for things.  I assume other areas of tht world are covered on there?

Generally though, the best phraseology is the clearest and quickest way you can say something.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you or missing a link to an earlier comment, because it seems like a wild statement to say there is no phraseology that pilots need to use.

In general, the clearest and quickest way to say something is well documented for a loooooot of common situations in the ICAO standard phraseology. Both for pilots and ATC. I know the US is a bit of a wild west concerning standard phraseology (not trying to start an argument, if it works it works), but still....