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Guest Jimbofly

Another example of why flightsim is headed downhill

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So today I saw an ad for a FSX product called Central Florida GA Airfields - Volume 1. So I go to the website to check out the screenshots and read the description of the product. I'm shocked to find out that for your hard earned $11.11 you get a bunch of default FSX objects placed at airports that apparently there are no buildings previously. This is something that can easily be done by anybody with a product like Instant Scenery (and probably was). How does a person in good conscience charge for this? Where has the creativity and originality gone? In the last few years of this hobby this sort of project would have been freeware. And now that FSX flyers are so desperate for addons you have projects like this coming out of the woodworks. Doing a search of the FS2004 libraries you can find a scenery series by the name of California Central Coast by Al Wheeler. These were a great set of addons that did about the same thing for California that this Central Florida offering claims to do but Wheeler's addon did it so much better since it offered custom scenery with custom objects. Central Florida GA Airfields just fills in space. It's not even a true representation of what these airfield look like in real life. WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE FS COMMUNITY, WE"RE HAVING TO PAY FOR FREEWARE QUALITY ADDONS!!!Check out the screenshots at the FSADDON site. Today is yet another sad day for FS. :(Here is the product description:Central Florida GA Airfields is part of the new FScene Design Network Triple-7 and 4x1 Series. Joe Watson has used the embedded FSX capabilities and objects to render a large number of small and private airstrips in Central Florida a more life-like aspect. Out of the (FSX) box these are all barren fields, just showing a runway and nothing else. Hardly realistic.By placing default objects in a natural fashion, Joe has given these fields a more realistic appearance, although they are not modelled after the real world as such.

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Some people may find this worth the money.And certainly ... the person releasing this believed that the time they put in to do the work was worth the money.I would compare what this person has produced to mission designers, who (usually) add nothing architecturally to the simulator, but who put in just as much effort as other developers.What I find interesting is the notion on the FScene website that they are distributors of "'low-end' software where ALL products in the cost ONLY US$ 11.11."I note with some interest that, if you purchase all the Central Florida airports, you will pay $44.44 - more for these airports than Flight Simulator X costs!

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But look at the screenshots!!!I've seen better freeware!!! $11.11, are you kidding me? What the heck is happening to the freeware market?!?

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Easy, less people working and willing to spend time doing something for free. As you said, it's easy to do the airports but the fact is:no one does it.and yes I did my share of freeware and still doing.Jos

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So you see my point. Alot of the quality freeware designers are staying with FS9 which is opening the door for simplistic sub par work for FSX. And since the FSX offerings are so sparse people are jumping on anything that they can get their hands on which is what some of these less talented developers are preying on.

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You say:It's not even a true representation of what these airfield look like in real life." then you quote the developer's site as saying:"....although they are not modelled after the real world as such"What's your problem - you got what the developer said?

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>You say:>>It's not even a true representation of what these airfield>look like in real life." >>then you quote the developer's site as saying:>>"....although they are not modelled after the real world as>such">>What's your problem - you got what the developer said?My point, and I backed it up by the developers quote, is that you are paying for a fantasy setup. My problem is that every Tom, Dick and Harry wants to get paid for anything that they throw together and put into FSX. We need to stop this by avoiding products like this. When you avoid products like this one you are telling them that you expect more for your money. The message needs to be sent out that just because you put a little time into a mediocre scenery doesn't mean that you should get paid for it. This freeware looking offering is half the price of the average FlyTampa product and yet nowhere near the quality. You'd pay for this? As the saying goes: Please, vote with your wallets. Pass on this sort of thing and send a message.

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If you want to support something, support Aerosoft's scenery for Venice for FSX. Amazing! I have it in FS9, but it looks even better in FSX.Those are the developers we should support.Lee

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>My point, and I backed it up by the developers quote, is that>you are paying for a fantasy setup.Relax, Fred. In case you haven't realized it yet, ALL flight simulation is a "fantasy setup". I've been a real-world pilot for over 30 years. But I've never flown an actual B747 in real life. So every time I fly one in FSX, it's a "fantasy". And I darn well would never fly my real-world C172 under the Golden Gate Bridge in real life, but I've done it numerous times in FS. Another fantasy fulfilled.And as for your analogy that "anybody could make this scenery themselves in FSX so paying for it should be wrong..." (not your exact words, but a paraphrase), I am quite capable of making my own cup of coffee every day. But I still spend good money to buy one or two of them from an industrious "coffee developer" on my way to work each day. So it's all relative.If you don't want to spend the money on something, don't buy it. It's as simple as that.

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>>My point, and I backed it up by the developers quote, is>that>>you are paying for a fantasy setup.>>Relax, Fred. In case you haven't realized it yet, ALL flight>simulation is a "fantasy setup". I've been a real-world pilot>for over 30 years. But I've never flown an actual B747 in>real life. So every time I fly one in FSX, it's a "fantasy". >And I darn well would never fly my real-world C172 under the>Golden Gate Bridge in real life, but I've done it numerous>times in FS. Another fantasy fulfilled.>>And as for your analogy that "anybody could make this scenery>themselves in FSX so paying for it should be wrong..." (not>your exact words, but a paraphrase), I am quite capable of>making my own cup of coffee every day. But I still spend good>money to buy one or two of them from an industrious "coffee>developer" on my way to work each day. So it's all relative.>>If you don't want to spend the money on something, don't buy>it. It's as simple as that.True..but we need say...what a crappy product it is..when it is crappy!:)Manny

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>If you don't want to spend the money on something, don't buy>it. It's as simple as that.That...is the bottom line. Looks to me like the developer of this product has been very honest about what he has done...if you want it, buy it...if you don't....don't.I used to spend hours upon hours years ago on freeware stuff for FS, and still will to an extremely lessor degree. But....there is a huge difference between the FS5 days and what we see today. Back in those days, selling FS add-ons was a huge point of contention within the FS community. Funny though...most/many of the folks who were providing freeware back in those days are now either selling their goods, or, in fact, have set-up shops for folks to sell other designers FS goods, including their own. In other words, folks have been moving to 'sellware' for over 10 years now. It isn't just now happening.It is what it is...but it ain't new.

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Fred said...WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE FS COMMUNITY, WE"RE HAVING TO PAY FOR FREEWARE QUALITY ADDONS!!!Darn!! I didn't realize that we all HAD to purchase this. Man, that is a rip. I wish we could go back to the days of being able to decide whether or not to purchase a product. It was so much better when we could decide not to support vendors who sell sub-standard products, or products I wasn't interested in. Oh well...

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>Fred said...>WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE FS COMMUNITY, WE"RE HAVING TO PAY>FOR FREEWARE QUALITY ADDONS!!!>>>Darn!! I didn't realize that we all HAD to purchase this. Man,>that is a rip. I wish we could go back to the days of being>able to decide whether or not to purchase a product. It was so>much better when we could decide not to support vendors who>sell sub-standard products, or products I wasn't interested>in. Oh well...>Amen to that. I was under the impression that we all had free will to tell a developer "no thanks" by not purchasing their product.Personally, when I read a post like the OP - I tend to think the poster has a hidden agenda. Maybe that's just me.Just MHO,VicQ6600 G0 CPU 2.4 o/c 3.65Evga 680i A1 with P31 BIOS 2G XP2-8500 DDR2 1066FSB Mushkin 996535 RAM 5-5-4-12-2T320G 7200 HD partitioned for XP/Vista/Programs 2 - 74G Raptors in RAID0 500G 7200 HD for backup SATA DVD burner Evga 8800GTS 640 PCIx 169.13 beta driverKandalf LCS case w/ built in liquid cooling 850W Thermaltake power supplyVisit the Virtual Pilot's Centerwww.flightadventures.comhttp://www.hifisim.com/banners/hifi-supporter-sigbanner.jpgRadar Contact Supporter: http://www.jdtllc.com/

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Hi Fred,personally, I'd say that hyperventilating posts like yours are more responsible for reducing fun in our hobby than any low-cost payware can do.You can rest assured that there are FS users, and probably quite a few, who will get enjoyment out of Joe's package and that is all that counts, isn't it? After all, the default airports he worked on are pretty much barren. Also, I'm sure he spent quite a bit of time on placing these objects and that's what he would like to be compensated for. Last but not least, do a search for Joe Watson in the AVSIM library and you'll find 50 entries of freeware contributions of his dating back to 2001. In any case, we're looking forward to *your* freeware airport add-ons with full custom GMax models and high-res textures. Something tells me though, that's not going to happen because you seem to prefer watching this hobby die while having some popcorn and yelling at the screen. Or what was the point of your post?Cheers, Holger

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uh oh! I wonder whether I'll get booted out of AVSIM now because I put "enjoyment" and "Joe's package" and "all that counts" in the same sentence :-outta Cheers, Holger :-wedge

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>Alot of the quality freeware designers>are staying with FS9 which is opening the door for simplistic>sub par work for FSX. That's quite a leap of logic to jump to that assumption out of the blue. That is not the conclusion I drew.Rather, I think the problem is, FS9 was out and established for a comparatively long time. Whereas FSX has only just now matured. Furthermore, it was easier to port from FS8 to FS9, than it is to port from FS9 to FS10.It's all related to the "moving target" aspect that FSX has been with all the SP's changing the way the sim handles objects, textures, transparency, etc.We didn't have any of that with FS9. Once FS9 was out, it was out, and that was it. Steady target. I don't think it's a matter of people staying with FS9 at all.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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Mods - (Please) - DO NOT BOOT HOLGER!!!(He might be ugly, but we still love him :-badteeth ):-xxrotflmao

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I sure hope not. That is about all that could happen that would make me agree with the originator of this thread. When contributors like yourself get booted, we really are going downhill.Respectfully:RTH

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Perhaps something to consider, and I'm no expert on the subject so please correct me if I'm wrong....and this applies to U.S. tax laws only as far as I know.....Isn't it true that the expenditures for PC upgrades etc that are related to a small side-business (and hobbies fit in here too, I think, with some kind of constraints?) are tax-deductible?So, (and any IRS employees, please hit the "BACK" button on your browser now).....wouldn't it be true that someone who enjoys FS as a hobby and doing things like scenery creation, etc, could theoretically create a small web-based business and offer a product for sale, proving the case and existence of the business, and then be able to claim all related hardware and software as deductions?In the meantime, most of the creations are made and kept in the freeware spirit, while one item may be offered for sale at a reasonable price ($11.11 ain't much now, c'mon). And in the meantime, the water-cooled quad processor unit with all the trimmings and big fast GPU, 3 huge monitors and Matrox Triplehead 2 Go, CH Products stick, throttle, rudder pedals, RumbleSeat (or whatever it's called) and anything else you care to throw in there, are refundable deductions in the coming months? Sweet!Not saying that's the case here. But as an example, I enjoy doing repaints, am fairly OK at it - certainly not the best but I did one by request for an individual running a helicopter flight service. If I could have sold that to him for $11.11 and also offered it on the web so my neighbor could buy it (after I mowed his lawn of course) then I could aso say that the other freeware stand-alone and with-release repaints I made this year were "promo" material to help get my business off the ground. Because, darn it, it's loosing money and I need to do something!Not that - you know - I'm condoning this kind of action at all....

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Not to mention the room where it's kept ... say about 5% of a house note, all utilities, etc.It's called a "home based business."

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Thanks, fsxmissionguy....I know I probably sound pretty dumb about it (and feel that way for sure). It hit me last year when doing the taxes (the wife usually does 'em and she took a break form it last time). Well.....I guess that settles it.....repaints of yur favorite plane, right here, two bucks apiece, step right up! :)

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So let me get this straight - someone tries to market a poor quality product, which subsequently gets called out for not being worth the money here on a flight sim consumer forum. This is a bad thing how again exactly? This doesn't mean "flightsim is headed downhill" it means someone tried to market a poor product and got called out for it...Nothing says that all products for FS will be good or else the sim is "going downhill" sheeesh...

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