Well, it is that time of the year again. Time for a lone wanderer in the wilderness to wonder if there is any chance of seeing a UK Flightsim Show in 2025. It has been over five years since I graced the holy chapel that is Hangar 1 at RAF Cosford, and I am not getting any younger. I keep praying that the gods will look down kindly on us, and move all of the required pieces into place on the great flight simulation chess board in the sky. I want to feel that excitement again that I experienced driving down to my selected Premier Inn hotel the day before the show. I want to see Raul, Monika, Kevin, Erich, and Steve again. Special friends who made my visits even more enjoyable. I also want the chance to make new friends with some of the characters that I have come to know and love so dearly on this forum since my last visit.

I really hope that one of the JustFlight team responds to this message. Whilst I know that they have always tried their best to get the show up and running again, it JustFeels like time is slipping away.....

Edited February 15, 20251 yr by Christopher Low

The US Show will be the number one priority, can they afford to host a show in the UK with all the increase cost coming up.

Couldn’t agree more Chris. We keep getting excuses that Brexit has stopped Aerosoft et al from coming over the Channel and organising one here. Doesn’t wash I’m afraid.

Whilst there have been changes at Cosford we’ve had shows at a hotel in Blackpool for the launch of FSX in 2006 plus the National Motorcycle Museum in Birmingham for many years around the turn of the century. There’s no shortage of venues. It just requires some motivation.

Microsoft have produced the most popular sim ever but they seem to have forgotten all about their UK customers. Someone needs to ask them why they can’t sort something out on their forum.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 We keep getting excuses that Brexit has stopped Aerosoft et al from coming over the Channel and organising one here. Doesn’t wash I’m afraid.

Brexit has largely stopped British bands - of all variety - from touring Europe Ray.

It seems reasonable to assume the same obstacles exist coming the other way too?

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

We keep getting excuses that Brexit has stopped Aerosoft et al from coming over the Channel and organising one here. Doesn’t wash I’m afraid.

Have you ever tried to transport goods across the UK/EU border since Brexit Ray? The bureaucracy increase would astound the Stasi...  It's not true of course that anything is impossible, but I can unfortunately understand why corporates conclude the effort does not now justify the return given the barriers that have been introduced.   

11 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Brexit has largely stopped British bands - of all variety - from touring Europe Ray.

It seems reasonable to assume the same obstacles exist coming the other way too?

If Aerosoft can’t come because of obstacles I wish they’d explain what they are. If European companies go to shows in the US that country isn’t in the EU either.

2 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Have you ever tried to transport goods across the UK/EU border since Brexit Ray?

No. But Aerosoft et al aren’t explaining why. With so much bought on the internet these days they could still attend without bringing anything that could be sold.

It really hurts British companies like Fulcrum. They could do really well at a British show.

24 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If Aerosoft can’t come because of obstacles I wish they’d explain what they are. If European companies go to shows in the US that country isn’t in the EU either.

They aren't under any obligation to provide a rationale to anyone.

EU/US requirements are in no way reflective of EU/UK ones, you aren't comparing apples with apples so while your words are true, its not really relevant? Future theoretical tariffs and trade wars may complicate that situation though!

Edited February 16, 20251 yr by kevinfirth

23 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It really hurts British companies like Fulcrum

I think the major problem facing Fulcrum is the limited production capacity and capital liquidity, not Brexit created issues, although I agree, it's certainly not going to help them...

14 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

I think the major problem facing Fulcrum is the limited production capacity and capital liquidity, not Brexit created issues, although I agree, it's certainly not going to help them...

It gives Fulcrum visibility just like 2018 when I first saw Chris and his yoke.

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It gives Fulcrum visibility just like 2018 when I first saw Chris and his yoke.

True, I also saw Chris at Cosford then.  Visibility without availability is just a cost without any return on the investment though, and arguably theres the reputational damage of being unable to supply further demand.

I'll buy a throttle, just none to actually buy right now 😭 

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If Aerosoft can’t come because of obstacles I wish they’d explain what they are. If European companies go to shows in the US that country isn’t in the EU either.

Okay; standby for a long-winded explanation. The three big things about being in the EU are freedom of movement, a single market and a customs union.

For our purposes the customs union and freedom of movement are the important points. Whilst we were members of the EU we could import and export goods and services within the EU with an absolute minimum of paperwork and duty. We were also absolutely free to travel within the EU with no questions asked.

Now we have left - without a deal -we no longer enjoy these benefits. How does this impact us?

Let's say the Harrogate Town Band has been invited to participate in an Oompah festival in Bavaria. The organisers of the festival have agreed to pay the expenses of the Harrogate Town band.

At the moment* this would count as 'business travel' as far as EU rules are concerned and the band's instruments and all the rest of their equipment would be subject to import duty and VAT on their value when they are imported into the EU. The band's instruments would have to be accompanied by their original purchase invoices or a valuation certificate for VAT purposes. If any of this paperwork is not supplied it's quite likely the owner would have to pay a punitive duty rate by EU customs....or have them confiscated.

At the moment there is no mechanism to distinguish between musical instruments that are being brought into the EU for a concert and musical instruments being brought into the EU for sale.

The good news for the Harrogate Town band is when they leave the EU with their instruments they can submit a series of forms to have the duty and VAT they paid on the instruments refunded.

Now imagine if you want to import a few PC's, a few screens, a few joysticks, throttles and software for a Flight Sim show....🤪

*'At the moment'; when we left the EU without a deal we did manage to negotiate with the EU a five year grace period during which all these issues were supposed to be worked out.

Five years was up last month and our governments have so far been unable or unwilling to reach any sort of agreement with the EU on just about anything.

  Although it doesn't seem to have been widely discussed, personal travel within the EU for us is about to become rather more awkward too....

 

 

Edited February 16, 20251 yr by DD_Arthur

Thanks @DD_Arthur, very well explained and shows the idiocy of the rules.

It would have been nice to keep this thread exclusively about the UK Flightsim Show.....

12 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

It would have been nice to keep this thread exclusively about the UK Flightsim Show.....

Funny and tangentially relevant stories that provide perspective on how difficult cross border transits could make attending a UK flightsim show for a European based company is stretching it a bit, but not entirely off topic Chris? 😉