1 hour ago, MattNischan said:

That's what I'm trying to do, but for some reason it isn't working, perhaps I'm not being clear enough.

If, in the LCF, you are seeing 50% reduced surface winds, then the aircraft has not opted into the new parameters.

If the LCF opts in to those parameters in the future, then you will see the correct surface winds.

Hopefully that clears it up.

Matt, I hear you loud and clear. 

Let me try again; I am talking only about a crosswind condition; wind direction is not an issue at all; the velocity computations are wrong. They show 1/2 of the actual speed during the takeoff roll, and they kick into the correct value after t.o. at about 800-900 FT.

This wind velocity indication should have nothing to do with ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed and ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed. One is a meteorological condition, and the other is an aerodynamic adjustment that should not affect the wind direction or velocity.

I just tried the 172, 208, 320, 330, and the 747s, and all show the same issue. At a crosswind condition, velocity is reduced by 1/2. See the picture; the actual surface wind is 230/15, and all show something different. As I stated, this does not happen in the real life. 

 

Edited March 30, 20251 yr by LRBS

Here we go again. Those parameters affect the crosswind velocity vs speed, which is what you are seeing. This is indeed a meteorological condition, not an aerodynamic adjustment. But changing the crosswind that is applied (halving it in this case) compared to what the "real" wind condition is effectively affects the aerodynamic response of the airplane to input crosswinds. 

If you want to have the actual crosswind velocity applied, these parameters need to be added in the Flight Tuning section of the flight model and each set to the value of - 1000.

Edited March 30, 20251 yr by Donstim

5 hours ago, LRBS said:

I am talking only about a crosswind condition; wind direction is not an issue at all; the velocity computations are wrong. They show 1/2 of the actual speed during the takeoff roll

Matt was talking about exactly that, not wind direction. No need to reiterate the same thing again and again.

I have to really test this!

What can I use, with default aircraft, to see on-the-fly, the values computed in-sim, because entering Dev Mode doesn't appear to do it, at least in default aircraft with encrypted files I can't have access to flight data 😞

56 minutes ago, Donstim said:

Here we go again. Those parameters affect the crosswind velocity vs speed, which is what you are seeing. This is indeed a meteorological condition, not an aerodynamic adjustment. But changing the crosswind that is applied (halving it in this case) compared to what the "real" wind condition is effectively affects the aerodynamic response of the airplane to input crosswinds. 

If you want to have the actual crosswind velocity applied, these parameters need to be added in the Flight Tuning section of the flight model and each set to the value of - 1000.

Unfortunately, that's not the answer.

 

24 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I have to really test this!

What can I use, with default aircraft, to see on-the-fly, the values computed in-sim, because entering Dev Mode doesn't appear to do it, at least in default aircraft with encrypted files I can't have access to flight data 😞

Any airplane in MSFS 2020 or 2024 that displays wind data on the navigation display (ND).

31 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Any airplane in MSFS 2020 or 2024 that displays wind data on the navigation display (ND).

Well..that was what he was asking! 

"Which bus can I take to get to town?" 

"Any bus in the area that has "town" as its destination.. "

🤔😉

7 hours ago, LRBS said:

This wind velocity indication should have nothing to do with ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed and ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed. One is a meteorological condition, and the other is an aerodynamic adjustment that should not affect the wind direction or velocity.

You may think that, but that's not how the effect is implemented under the hood. As I said before, it decreases the actual wind at the aircraft position (not just the wind the aero sim experiences), and thus the simvars used by aircraft for their wind indicators also receive the surface wind reduction effect.

59 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Unfortunately, that's not the answer.

Have you tried this with live weather? There may be an issue that the weather panel is creating a different wind layer at the surface. Does ATIS match your avionics wind display?

Edited March 30, 20251 yr by MattNischan

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

Any airplane in MSFS 2020 or 2024 that displays wind data on the navigation display (ND).

I want to see what is being used at the "core", without any "effects" from WASM-programmed avionics in between...

Previously ( FS 2020 ) when Dev Mode was enabled I could open any aircraft project and it's associated flight dynamics data, including real time weather variables. With FS 2024 I can't do it with the default aircraft 😞

2 hours ago, MattNischan said:

You may think that, but that's not how the effect is implemented under the hood.

Matt, Thank you!

Hopefully, they will resolve this issue.

 

2 hours ago, MattNischan said:

Have you tried this with live weather? There may be an issue that the weather panel is creating a different wind layer at the surface. Does ATIS match your avionics wind display?

The more I delve into this, the more I believe there's an issue with the WX panel. Yes, when it matches ATIS, this problem is not a concern at all.

You see, if someone wants to "practice" a crosswind situation like this, they will get incorrect results.

 

42 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Yes, when it matches ATIS, this problem is not a concern at all.

I can confirm this. I quickly tried in 2024 with live weather and found the wind on the ND matching nicely with the METAR, aircraft is the MAX. Wind velocity varies between 10 and 18, as it should:

46 minutes ago, fsiscool said:

I can confirm this. I quickly tried in 2024 with live weather and found the wind on the ND matching nicely with the METAR, aircraft is the MAX. Wind velocity varies between 10 and 18, as it should:

 

What about the direction, if you go to an airport with higher magnetic declination?

It should be noticeable if for instance you have a 14° +/- declination. The METAR report would be displaced 14° from the ATIS report.

@MattNischan, could you please confirm what reference is used when manually setting the wind through the weather GUI? Thx 👍

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

could you please confirm what reference is used when manually setting the wind through the weather GUI?

Having not worked on that interface, I must confess that I don't know off the top of my head and I've not had occasion during normal usage to be that precise. I would need to do the same test as you propose (go somewhere with high magvar and see if there is a difference).

6 hours ago, LRBS said:

Unfortunately, that's not the answer.

 

Sure it is. Which airplane did you use? See below screenshot for the default 787-10. I also included the Simvar watcher window, which shows exactly what wind is being applied in MSFS (that is, for the default ground crosswind parameters it will show half the crosswind that is input in the weather UI). The ambient wind velocity/direction and ambient wind X (crosswind) all show the full 20 knots of crosswind being applied.

@jcomm the Simvars show wind direction referenced to true. Since the ambient wind direction Simvar is the same as the wind direction that was input in the UI, this implies that input winds are referenced to true. Note that the 787-10 cockpit wind display shows a different direction, which is different by approximately the magvar for that runway. Normally wind direction shown on airplane NDs is referenced to true, but I don't know if that's the case with the 787. If it is, then there is something either messed up with the display coding, or there is something odd about manually input wind direction in MSFS and the Simvar depiction of it.

Screenshot 2025-03-30 080741.jpg

The same wind direction issue is present with live weather. I just confirmed it with the 787, and @fsiscool's screenshot shows it as well (magvar for KJFK is 13 degrees W).

Screenshot 2025-03-30 083310.jpg