On 5/2/2025 at 2:28 AM, johncott said:

Questions:

is this the new standard?

 

 

Has been for quite a while now, although stubborn people like me have resisted the urge and stuck with their favored Noctua big boys, and as long as you do things like, complying with Intel's power limits, not overclocking,  and whatever the equivalent is with AMD, it's still viable.

 

On 5/2/2025 at 2:28 AM, johncott said:

Any issues with liquid cooled with leaking?

 

Relatively rare, now. 

 

On 5/2/2025 at 2:28 AM, johncott said:

Any regular maintenance with liquid cooled?

 

AIO, no. Custom Loop, yes.

 

 

On 5/2/2025 at 3:56 PM, CO2Neutral said:

The larger AIOs are just “ok”, go with a custom loop as you get far more flexibility and a lot quieter.  I just recently finished a hard line setup on a Corsair 9000D, 16 fans, 2 D5 pumps, 2x480 1x 420 radiators and added a fill port with ball valve and drain port with ball valve.  Extremely quiet setup as I don’t need to run the fans at high speed to ensure optimal thermal exchange.

Do NOT run pumps at full speed, use a temp curve.  For the D5 pumps I run at 1800 rpm to about 2300 rpm (max is about 5000 rpm) to obtain optimal cooling, your setup will vary a little pending number of radiators and line/tube elevation … so unless you have some super long distances, rpm should be around 1800 - 2300.

Hardline setups are more difficult to create but do look nice … I enjoy building them, but soft line tubing has less potential to leak and much easier to manage and if you change components frequently you can use quick disconnects which means no draining of loop required to switch out components.  Do NOT go cheap with fittings.  Koolance make excellent fittings with swivel, but they’re not cheap … just make sure you get correct OD/ID measurements AND go with quality tubing (for hardline TMMA for soft line PU tubing (not PVC)).

After install you will want to jump the PSU MB connector to trigger perhipal power to run the cooling system ONLY (no power to components) to ensure no leaks, prime, and get the air pockets out.

Do NOT use distilled water.  Use coolants from a supplier as they will have the necessary anti-bacteria chemicals and lubricants for pump already mixed in the fluid. 

The build will be rewarding, very very low risk, and run very quiet even under heavy loads.  Custom loops are awesome.

EDIT: case pressure, recommended to aim for neutral which means you should have as many as fans pulling air into the case and you do pushing air out of the case.  Typically pull air in from the front and exhaust air out back and/or top/side.

 

 

 

Agree with everything you say. Although I doubt the OP will want to spend so much on a cooling system, especially as it's from a supplier. AIO is the best option for him. 

 

I recently got fed up with my Phanteks Evolv X that weighed six million tons and shrunk everything down to fit in an NCASE M2 Mini ITX. Abandoned my D15 that wouldn't fit and am cooling a 14900K with a mere Noctua NH-D12L. 😁 Intel power limits in place, no XMP to save a 10 degrees and the 14900K is delidded, with liquid metal and a Thermal Grizzly heat spreader that acts as a contact frame too. Runs great, but nosier than I like when gaming. 

The other reason I did the magical shrinking trick was due to an impending house move, involving island hopping. And when I arrive at the new place, dosh permitting...

MO-RA 400, Heatkiller CPU block and Heatkiller graphics card block. Two D5 pumps etc. Two Koolance quick disconnects will be involved, so if you have any and they have been reliable, let me know.

All dosh permitting of course. 

 

On 5/2/2025 at 6:34 PM, CO2Neutral said:

and they're heavy (definitely not good for vertical mount motherboards) and only two fastener points for that much weight on a CPU.

 

There we do disagree. 😁 Had a D15 for a very long time.... the Secufirm 2 mounting system is excellent, absolutely no issues in terms of motherboard strain. It's an old myth that still surfaces from time to time. 

 

On 5/2/2025 at 6:34 PM, CO2Neutral said:

the standard for custom water loops are Goulds D5 pumps, extremely reliable

 

So not Laing?

 

21 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

Disagree, AIO operate on the same principles but aren’t maintainable and hence fail or become less efficient and need to be replaced.  A maintainable custom loop can be used thru many iterations of components lasting decades with the only replacement part being the CPU waterblock (sometimes not even that).

 

Some people would rather buy an AIO that will last 3 years or more than deal with Custom Loop maintenance though. Some shy away from such things and prefer pre-built zero maintenance. Some aren't in the least technically inclined. 

Thanks everybody for your input. I gain the knowledge I needed from you're comments and done some research. The place where I'm getting my computer has built my last two machines. I used the first one for 5 years (had to replace the power supply in year five) and the current one for six years. The first one is still running and my grandkids used it. I have enough information and knowledge to ask the proper questions and trust they will look after me again. 

John C.

10 hours ago, martin-w said:

So not Laing?

Goulds pumps circa 1848 ... Laing pumps circa 1970.

We can agree to disagree ... all good.  I have the Noctua NH-D15 G2 in one of my 5U rack cases ... but barely fits and I had to raise the fans up a few slots as they hit on the RAM modules and the rear hub.

10 hours ago, martin-w said:

Some people would rather buy an AIO that will last 3 years or more than deal with Custom Loop maintenance though.

Sure, but I've ran my custom loops for 5 years without needing to drain with the only occasional fluid top up once a year ... a < 60 second task.  Use the correct fluids and materials and there shouldn't be a need to drain.  AIOs they use plastics and rubbers which are permeable so liquid will be lost over time.  If the AIO isn't under heavy loads frequently, then it might last 3 years.  Quality AIOs will usually come with a 3 year warranty and some as long as 5 year, less quality AIO will be 1 year warranty.

9 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

barely fits and I had to raise the fans up a few slots as they hit on the RAM modules and the rear hub.

 

I preferred the NH-D15S. Only one fan, but the difference between one or two is barely two degrees. RAM clearance is far better. Not that I ever bother with super tall RAM, it's just a gimmick. 

 

9 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

Goulds pumps circa 1848 ... Laing pumps circa 1970.

Been around longer doesn't necessarily mean a better product. I can't find any of the D5's you mention, only Laing

 

9 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

Sure, but I've ran my custom loops for 5 years without needing to drain with the only occasional fluid top up once a year ... a < 60 second task

Many people with PC's do not want to face any top ups or a five year drain or anything at all. It's a fear, might be unwarranted, but we have to except that many people aren't like you or me. I'll dive into anything in terms of PC's, car maintenance, DIY etc. Lots of people aren't like that. My son is one of them, very intelligent but not that way inclined.

Air or AIO is the better, cost effective, option for most.... me and you are different. 

 

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

Been around longer doesn't necessarily mean a better product.

True, but for a company to stay in business that long making pumps, they must be doing something right that keeps the customers buying their pumps.

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

I'll dive into anything in terms of PC's, car maintenance, DIY etc. Lots of people aren't like that. My son is one of them

And my wife is another, and most of my relatives … they converted from PC to Mac a long time ago 😉.  Personally I play the field of technology, try it all (well as much as I can) and decide what works and what doesn’t and everything in between.  It’s a road often fought with “issues” way too many considering the costs involved, but that seems to be the 70% rule that most consumers accept as “normal” … mediocrity of product delivery be it intangible or tangible.

With that said, I would still encourage the OP to “get involved” it could save money and be rewarding.  There are some parts of the internet where information is accurate and golden to help as a guide … getting harder to find but does still exist.  Being involved establishes a sense of “value” not to mention real world experience and understanding.

Edited May 5, 20251 yr by CO2Neutral

On 5/2/2025 at 2:35 PM, Bob Scott said:

Honestly, if you opt for one of the 8-core AMD X3D chips, which are the king of the hill for MSFS presently due to their super-sized L3 cache, I would stick with a good air cooler due to their simplicity and reliability.  My 7800X3D is typically only dissipating ~60 watts running MSFS, so an air cooler would be more than sufficient.

Very much agree with this.  The only reason I use AIO with my 7800X3D is because I had it left over from my previous Intel build.  Otherwise I would have gone back to air cooling.

Artic Liquid Freezer 3 will tame the hottest CPU you can buy. And allow your CPU on variable boost to hit max performance without throttle.

If you don’t mind some noise, these Koolance Vapor Chillers and Thermoelectric are the best at keeping CPU/GPU thermals low as you can operate below ambient to dew point.

Koolance Vapor Chillers 900

Koolance Thermoelectric 

But they are noisy, but very easy to setup as they are external units so a couple of quick disconnects on the case mount and lines to CPU and/or GPU, reduces “leak” fears/exposure.  Many cases come with pre-drill holes for external cooling configurations.  Koolance make some great quick disconnects case mounts.

 

 

Not to steal the thread but, since we are talking about it, Opinion please,

 

Is an 240 AIO good for an I7-14700K?  I am used to running a I7 9700K on a 120 IAO with no issues but i know the 14700K will run alot hotter.

 

Thanks

Edited May 8, 20251 yr by Ed_S_Pilot

On 5/2/2025 at 10:07 PM, Maxis said:

I would advise the OP to closely tack to the advice of @Bob Scott. Unless you want to be doing active maintenance skip the custom water loops. A good AIO is more than sufficient.

Only downside is that AIO usually last only 4-5 years since the cooling liqued will slowly evaporate. In most cases, you will be considering replacing the PC by then anyway so in practice it is hardly an issue.

On 5/8/2025 at 5:27 AM, Ed_S_Pilot said:

Is an 240 AIO good for an I7-14700K? 

No, 2 fan AIOs will not do any better than an air cooled Noctua D15 G2 under load.  Minimum for AIO is a 3 fans setup if you want some benefit over a good air only cooler.

Thanks, I am case limited. I guess a complete build is coming including case. 5 year old pc, I think its time....   Hmmm, My Bday just around the corner, wink wink....

 

Good reason to upgrade. Thanks for you input.