Paid 20€ for the upgrade in the JF store (with the discount applied). Fair, as long as this means more fixes and updates during XP12's life cycle.

 

On 5/22/2025 at 8:19 PM, UrgentSiesta said:

What if really like to see is Thranda (who re-develops JF add-ons for XP) continue to branch out into larger, complex, and advanced aircraft like this.

As nice as them converting other JF aircraft for XP12 would be (e.g. F28), I do not see that happen. It took a considerable amount of pushing and pulling to get Dan to even consider updating the 146 for XP12 because of the aircraft's complexity (compared to other Thranda products).

Edited May 31, 20251 yr by Bjoern

6 hours ago, Bjoern said:

As nice as them converting other JF aircraft for XP12 would be (e.g. F28), I do not see that happen. It took a considerable amount of pushing and pulling to get Dan to even consider updating the 146 for XP12 because of the aircraft's complexity (compared to other Thranda products).

(I had a more nuanced response posted, but internet black-magic made it go, "poof!" 😞 ).

For a multitude of reasons, perhaps the BAe-146 wasn't a great choice for their first highly complex addon:

• It's a real-deal airliner - quite a jump from their usual Light GA piston singles...
• it's not a popular IRL aircraft relative to Airbus and Boeing
• It's mostly out of service and only remains in far corners of the world
• It's truly an old, classic steam gauge aircraft with just radio nav (as IRL and as first released).
• It's got a ton of custom systems, e.g. the TMS, etc.
• The v11 version was, as is typical with Just Flight, sold at a premium price point. I.e., why would a typical flight simmer go for the BAe when they could have a 757 or A320 or 747-200 or 747-8i for the same money...?

NOW it's $45, which despite the high quality and high complexity, is IMHO a good move relative to other airliners and such.

And Dan himself makes some very odd statements, like complaining that light GA aircraft don't really sell well enough to pay the bills, develping oddball aircraft like the Wilga, etc.

In any case, the light GA segment in XP seems to be saturated.

His aircraft are well developed, but don't push any fidelity boundaries (e.g., Airfoil Labs)

But then he goes and develops the PC-12, which is a complex turboprop "airliner" with custom avionics, and prices it at a relative premium. And from all accounts is doing well with it (which makes me happy!). And yeah, I just bought it, too, so I vote with my wallet.

So, while he doesn't owe any of us a roadmap, there's a LOT of contradictions between his statements and his actions. Just makes me curious...

So, to clarify, I don't necessarily think taking on something the likes of JF's Fokker is the way to go (unless BAe sales are going bonkers 🙂 ). But what's his option given all the above...?

He kinda needs to go to larger, more complex aircraft like turboprop multi's or biz jets, and hopefully he continues on with making the G1000 at least an option (which ultimately is what swayed me to buying his PC-12).

///

ETA: IIRC, he did all the Carenado conversions to XP, so it's not like he hasn't experience with GA jets, glass cockpits, and such. He's even made Thranda-branded versions of the same ones he did for Carenado, so it wouldn't seem like there's a non-compete/IP issue, either.

IDK, I'm basically hoping, as I originally said, that he continues to go upscale with the aircraft, as he's done with the PC-12.

Edited May 31, 20251 yr by UrgentSiesta

Is the "Dan" you're mentioning Dan Klaue ?

9 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Is the "Dan" you're mentioning Dan Klaue ?

Yessir 👍

Was far from knowing he's the one behind this BAe 146 🙂

 

7 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Was far from knowing he's the one behind this BAe 146 🙂

 

Its shockingly GREAT - isn't it...? 👍

My hat's off to them (again) for bringing it to XP.

Now we "just" need them to do v2 of the Hawk, as well 😁

Edited May 31, 20251 yr by UrgentSiesta

14 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Its shockingly GREAT - isn't it...? 👍

Indeed! Great guy Dan 👍👍👍

OFT but relevant - re Just Flight. They had minimal inhouse developers and most of their stuff was done under contract by other developers particularly earlier sim stuff for FSX/P3D. A lot of it was actually done by Aeroplane Heaven (AH) and they said they built to price and deliberately dumbed down stuff for JF. Some was quite sophisticated or detailed as well but some was well shall we say basic and who did them I have a few clues but not definitively. So the issue there is the conversion to XP problem - you cannot just rework these older models for XP the design architecture etc is different. I was a significant customer for JF for years and still buy for XP if and when I can there - they were a reputable honest provider to the sim world. 

I miss the VC10 that was a real gem - cruising at M 0.92 and extremely detailed but alas FSX/P3D only. 

Edited May 31, 20251 yr by coastaldriver

1 hour ago, coastaldriver said:

OFT but relevant - re Just Flight. They had minimal inhouse developers and most of their stuff was done under contract by other developers particularly earlier sim stuff for FSX/P3D. A lot of it was actually done by Aeroplane Heaven (AH) and they said they built to price and deliberately dumbed down stuff for JF. Some was quite sophisticated or detailed as well but some was well shall we say basic and who did them I have a few clues but not definitively. So the issue there is the conversion to XP problem - you cannot just rework these older models for XP the design architecture etc is different. I was a significant customer for JF for years and still buy for XP if and when I can there - they were a reputable honest provider to the sim world. 

I miss the VC10 that was a real gem - cruising at M 0.92 and extremely detailed but alas FSX/P3D only. 

Yes, I think that was part of the challenge for Thranda with the 146. As a subcontractor to JF, they get somewhat less than the total price (no idea how it's split).

BUT they delivered an extremely thoroughly re-developed, very complex addon in the 146 (IMHO). And so Dan commented once that the v11 146 was a net money-loser for Thranda.

I've no doubt that was part of the reluctance to bring the 146 forward for v12. But also IMHO, the only way to have any hope of at least breaking even on it.

In any case, they've done a GREAT job on the new version, and it provides a nice workout when flying it old school radio nav, and no auto-throttle, either 😎.

FPS is also good 👍

So maybe the Vulcan v2 is in the pipeline...? IDK who dev'd the new version for MSFS, but it's truly a masterpiece there.

In any case, I'm happy that JF and Thranda have figured out a way to re-invogorate their line for XP 12.

Yes a lot of developers who did JF work never went to XP and they were not the only ones, the pull of sales early on in MSFS was just overpowering as for upgrades of other stuff to XP12 we can see heaps of stuff done for XP11 that has been left to rot so to speak and will not be redone for XP12. I think some of this development work was simply opportunistic to get a market of any sort while the MSFS thing was kicking off. Like PMDG and the DC-6 did for FSX/P3D and then XP11 and now it is pulled completely (Got burned with that one so PMDG is last on my list for anything any more) Many and various reasons for this happening too not related to it being too hard or not cost effective but simply one man band developers just stop doing it for all sorts of reasons.

The uptake of XP12 BAE146 seems healthy enough given the number of screenshots etc being posted about the place. 

I did some FM development for JF actually, between 2005 and 2007 🙂 - helicopters only... and once tried a glider too, but gave up ... 😁

Regarding the BAe 146, after watching some youtubes I am tempted to buy the FS 2024 version. It looks like it adds some functionality, which is typical of the MSFS platform, and in some graphical aspects looks better than the Xp12 version.

OFC I don't know about the "feel of flight" yet, but it's probably going to be good too as far as I can observe from some of the youtubes by professional pilots.

Is Dan Klaue also the author of the MSFS version?

(P.S.: I remember Dan's Embraer creator tutorials for Xp10 and 11 !!! )

 

Edited June 1, 20251 yr by jcomm

14 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

So, while he doesn't owe any of us a roadmap, there's a LOT of contradictions between his statements and his actions. Just makes me curious...

Don't get your hopes up.

 

14 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

ETA: IIRC, he did all the Carenado conversions to XP, so it's not like he hasn't experience with GA jets, glass cockpits, and such. He's even made Thranda-branded versions of the same ones he did for Carenado, so it wouldn't seem like there's a non-compete/IP issue, either.

Yes, Thranda did the conversions and they did a good job with them, but I do not know of any releases where a Carenado IP'd aircraft resurfaced under Thranda's brand (as this would cause a licensing conflict).

 

3 hours ago, jcomm said:

Is Dan Klaue also the author of the MSFS version?

No. Thranda is XP only.

36 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

No. Thranda is XP only.

Hmm, ok, thx for the explanation. Wonder who did the MSFS version then - and judging from the videos I've been watching, it surely has many elements, like the "EFB" that look a lot like those in the XP12 version (?) and that's why it made me think they had been developed by the same team.

5 hours ago, Bjoern said:

Don't get your hopes up.

 

Yes, Thranda did the conversions and they did a good job with them, but I do not know of any releases where a Carenado IP'd aircraft resurfaced under Thranda's brand (as this would cause a licensing conflict).

 

No. Thranda is XP only.

Oh, believe me, my "hopes" are low 😆

///

Thranda have released a Caravan, a PC-12, a 206, a 172 and a 337. All after doing those planes for Carenado (the 337 never came to XP, but Carenado have one).

It doesn't have to be an actual Carenado addon to constitute infringement since Thranda had access to Carenados code & graphics.

And to be perfectly clear, I'm not saying any IP was infringed (I have no idea whether or not...) and further, there may be a private agreement between Thranda and Carenado, since Carenado have  completely halted XP development.

Simply that there is a remarkable overlap in product lines that any lawyer would love to dig into.

Edited June 1, 20251 yr by UrgentSiesta

4 hours ago, jcomm said:

Hmm, ok, thx for the explanation. Wonder who did the MSFS version then - and judging from the videos I've been watching, it surely has many elements, like the "EFB" that look a lot like those in the XP12 version (?) and that's why it made me think they had been developed by the same team.

Just Flight do have an organic dev team, in addition to publishing other devs work.

Edited June 1, 20251 yr by UrgentSiesta