Flew into KORD from the east, a couple of times this weekend, using the WINDY and WATSN STAR's.    Noticed on both, there are no speed / altitude constraints and (if you are using the southern runways), you have to leave the STAR well before the final waypoint or else you will be out of position for lining up on those runways.   Looking at traffic flows from Flight Aware confirms this.    So from a simming perspective, I assume I just need to wing it and fly whatever vectors / altitudes / speeds I feel are acceptable to get me to the ILS approach fix?   Not as easy as it sounds, my first time I descended way too soon and spent the last 40 miles of the flight leveled off at FL100.    Any tricks to this?  Would BATC be able to handle this kind of a STAR?  

BATC is hit and miss.  I don't have the plate in front of me but typically Chicago approach will start peeling people off the star and vectoring them onto final approach course.

Not all STARS have a transition to an IAP (Instrument Approach Procedure)

So best rule of thumb for descent is 30 miles for 10,000 ft.    And then once on an approach expect to 300 ft per NM.

Example if the ils glide slope interception is at 3000 ft, you could theoretically still be below the glide slope (or just at it) at 4,500 ft, 5 miles away.  (5 x 300ft is 1500 ft.  1500 + 3000 is 4500ft) So you don't have to be level at 3000 ft 5 miles from the FAF, just be under the glide slope.  You'll have to pretend and do this for yourself cause default and even BATC can be pretty bad.

Basically landing west at ORD you'd probably be at 6000-8000 ft abeam the glide slope intercept (as you're flying east on the STAR), and Chicago approach control will descend you and turn you inbound to final depending on the sequence of aircraft.

BATCs issue is that it leaves you high and hot most the time. I had every thing set up for a BENKY6 28 C arrival from Denver and then when I got there it turned to a 10C arrival. At PETAH at 8000 it gave me vectors of 330. BATC is okay but it always calls late. I could see what it was doing, once I got about 2 miles from the localizer it said turn right 070 descend and maintain 4000 which was okay since I was watching it but had I just been listening to ATC I would have been way too high I was going to intercept just before RAYYY but I needed to be 2300 AT RAYYY.  Luckily I was smart and was already descending so the ILS was still captured just barely.  So no you can use BATC but it won't improve anything yet.  It olny does well when the STAR and APPROACH don't ever change. But in my case it changed when I got there so I set up everything in NAV and HDG, V/S ETC.  It looked smooth but only because I was able to figure out what it was plotting and have I Navigraph Charts. 

13 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

BATC is hit and miss.  I don't have the plate in front of me but typically Chicago approach will start peeling people off the star and vectoring them onto final approach course.

Not all STARS have a transition to an IAP (Instrument Approach Procedure)

So best rule of thumb for descent is 30 miles for 10,000 ft.    And then once on an approach expect to 300 ft per NM.

Example if the ils glide slope interception is at 3000 ft, you could theoretically still be below the glide slope (or just at it) at 4,500 ft, 5 miles away.  (5 x 300ft is 1500 ft.  1500 + 3000 is 4500ft) So you don't have to be level at 3000 ft 5 miles from the FAF, just be under the glide slope.  You'll have to pretend and do this for yourself cause default and even BATC can be pretty bad.

Basically landing west at ORD you'd probably be at 6000-8000 ft abeam the glide slope intercept (as you're flying east on the STAR), and Chicago approach control will descend you and turn you inbound to final depending on the sequence of aircraft.

Excellent answer! As it happens, 99% of the time. 

I’m based out of ORD in real life…

 

Here’s some insider info, of ORD is landing to the west…

WYNDE STARs…

put into your FMC for RHIVR at FL200, FIYHR at 9000. That is usually what they do.

TRACON will pull you of the arrival around FIYHR or so and vector you onto the final. They will continue to descend you to either 4,000 for 27R or 7,000 for 27L. They will vector you to intercept glide slope before the fix that is associated with your altitude. (4k or 7k.)

WATSN STARs…

HULLS at 12000. TRACON will descend you to 10,000 at 300 knots and then descend below 10k and tell you to maintain 250 kias. They will vector you off the arrival when you’re over the water and onto final. They will continue your descent to 7,000 feet and then clear you for the approach. They will vector you to intercept glideslope before the fix that is associated with 7,000 feet.
 

WHEN ORD IS LANDING EAST…

you won’t use the WATSN STARs at all. They will always switch you to the ESSPO arrival. This happened to me this morning actually.

 

WYNDE arrival landing east, RHIVR at 20,000 feet and then FIYHR at , 11,000. After that, fly the arrival all the through to the downwind for the 9s/10s runways. You have to be at 4,000 before you can be vectored off of the arrival and onto final. Anytime you’re on a downwind at ORD, be at 7,000 feet as you’ll be crossing over departing traffic that will level off at 5k. 

 

for all approaches, they will have you intercept at 250 knots usually and then slow you to 210until the fix before your FAP. They then slow you to either 180,170 or 160 and tell you to hold that speed until the FAP. 

This should help you out.

Edited March 23Mar 23 by ahsmatt7

I use Navigraph charts when I fly arrival and approach into ORD. I get the correct altitude constraints and speeds. But like said before IRL ORD is such a busy airport, ATC will mostly vector you to final approach 

40 minutes ago, Bigmack said:

I use Navigraph charts when I fly arrival and approach into ORD. I get the correct altitude constraints and speeds. But like said before IRL ORD is such a busy airport, ATC will mostly vector you to final approach 

The two arrivals the OP asked about don’t have any charted altitude and speed restrictions. ORD has other arrivals from different directions that do have restrictions.

Very nice and informative thread...for ORD Approach.

Having lived ~30 years in Chicago, I find the flight paths approaching from the east i.e., (usually) over Lake Michigan along with a view of the skyline, fascinating. It's as if the airplanes (and the pilots) wish to give an excellent view of both the Lake and the skyline to the passengers ...🙂...

I particularly recall one occasion, when in an evening thunderstorm, the flashes of lightning were reflecting off the dark waters of Lake Michigan below, as the airplane was banking and probably following one of the STARs mentioned above, and vectored westward into the final segment.

 @ryanbatc here has likely directed more than once the long-haulers I was myself travelling on, coming in from Europe, and overflying his control zone north of Chicago, before those flights track southward for the final stretch towards O'Hare.  

Thanks @11bee and all the answers provided in response.