Interesting I recently purchased the Aerosoft/Toliss A340 and decided to test how accurate the Zone temperatures are when sitting at Longybearn in -23C conditions.

I would open the rear doors and sit quietly and see if opening individual doors would equate to realistic temperature changes when there is no APU Bleed Air supplied. If you then open one door further forward it seems amazingly accurate as to how it changes within a 30 minute period. The Fenix A320 also seems very accurate with this test even when you open the cockpit window how quickly that space cools . PMDG/Inibuilds A340  unfortunatley does not seem to have the same detail it does not seem to matter which doors are open at which time the entire cabin cools in a more balanced fashion always pretty much the same and with PMDG takes a lot longer to cool right down and unfortuantely the cockpit window being open makes no difference... Not sure how detailed MSFS 2024 can be in simulating this or whether one has to right your own unique code.

I know this is pushing the study level part but I have to say I am very impressed with the Toliss/Fenix/Blacksquare ability to seem to nail it, its niche for sure but it makes one feel that probably nail every other aspect too..

 

H.

I don’t know, the cabin smells wrong in the PMDG too … 🙂 

Wonder if the FSLabs A3xx does that also, now you got me intrigued.

Tested FSLabs ... cabin temps do change with window and door open/closed.

Interesting experiment. Agreed, that's some nice attention to detail! I don't believe any of this is modeled by MSFS itself - it's all custom coding.

By the way, the town is correctly called Longyearbyen, which means simply "Longyear town". An unusual name for a place in Norway - it's named after the American John Munro Longyeat, who started coal mining operations there.

(Sorry for the historical tangent - I just think it's a fascinating place!) 

Fascinating place sorry I mis spelt the name.. I love flying in these areas.

I might try to see what happens if you cut off the packs at 340000 feet and then supply oxygen. I wonder whether the warmth of the passengers would keep the cabin temperature at a certain level from body heat maybe try a full flight and then an empty flight to see if there is a difference. I know this is ridiculous but fun to see how far some developers go.. If one cuts the engine bleeds would that make a difference too....

 

H

 

I posted in the PMDG forum to ask about how they code this? If the situation was reversed and one tried hot conditions maybe 38C whether again zones are moddled as to which doors are open.

I did notice that with the PMDG 777 it took a while for the Cargo area to warm up which I imagine is correct.

 

H.

1 hour ago, Hamish100 said:

Fascinating place sorry I mis spelt the name.. I love flying in these areas.

I might try to see what happens if you cut off the packs at 340000 feet and then supply oxygen. I wonder whether the warmth of the passengers would keep the cabin temperature at a certain level from body heat maybe try a full flight and then an empty flight to see if there is a difference. I know this is ridiculous but fun to see how far some developers go.. If one cuts the engine bleeds would that make a difference too....

 

H

 

Looking forward to hearing the results of these experiments.

I definitely expect that they've modeled the fact that the packs require bleed air. It would also be interesting to see if they've modeled the effect of bleed air demand on engine parameters. AIUI, at a given N1, turning bleeds off should cause EGT to decrease. Toliss have created a custom engine model, so I would assume that they've modeled this too.

3 hours ago, SayAgain said:

Tested FSLabs ... cabin temps do change with window and door open/closed.

Since P3D days… 

Packs is not required on the ground, you can also use the ground air units while the APU is off.

Funny you should mention that! I actually tried a similar experiment 2 weeks ago with the Inibuilds /MSFS default A330 parked at a gate with an external OAT of 10C and activated the APU to let the bleed air warm up the cabin to 22C, which it did do across the various zones simulated by the various Inlet duct valve temps rising and the trim air valves opening and closing to regulate the flow.

I then opened up the cabin doors to see if there was a noticeable drop in temp. Unfortunately not. The only way the cabin cooled was if the bleed air was turned off completely, then the cabin temp started decreasing, slowly but surely, over several minutes.
I also tried to determine if it was possible to have the Ground Power service provide "local" air to the cabin, but as it turns out it looks like this is not modelled for the A330.

So for the A330, some of the air con systems and effects are modelled in a basic MSFS2024 aircraft, but not all the permutations of external environment factors that can impact the aircraft.

I guess its up to each developer to determine how much "reality" they want to build into their aircraft to make it studiable.

38 minutes ago, 787flyer said:

Funny you should mention that! I actually tried a similar experiment 2 weeks ago with the Inibuilds /MSFS default A330 parked at a gate with an external OAT of 10C and activated the APU to let the bleed air warm up the cabin to 22C, which it did do across the various zones simulated by the various Inlet duct valve temps rising and the trim air valves opening and closing to regulate the flow.

I then opened up the cabin doors to see if there was a noticeable drop in temp. Unfortunately not.

I think that's not necessarily unrealistic though? I'd expect the system to provide more hot air to compensate, and within limits, be able to maintain the set temperature. That obviously breaks down at some point if it's too cold outside, but at 10 degrees OAT, still seems plausible to me? If this is modeled correctly, what you'd definitely want to see, though, is the Pack Turbine Bypass Valve on the BLEED page moving towards the "hot" side when you open the doors.

(And to be clear, I have my doubts whether the default A330 actually models this correctly -- just noting that even if it is modeled, you wouldn't necessarily see a temperature drop if the OAT is moderate.)

This realism is not unique to Aerosoft/Toliss and Fenix.  Just the other day I passed a fair amount of gas while sitting on the ramp in a cold & dark BlackSquare Baron and watched in awe as the cabin temp gauge slowly rose a couple of degrees.