FS11 release hint and animated people too!

[n4gix 4,957]

>I'd like to know where the moderators are? >>How is this continuing in the FSX forum? If there is interest>in FS11 waving hands (which I have no interest in), please>move this to the FS11 forum.First, there is no "FS11" forum and won't be for a very long time.Secondly, the thread title clearly states "FS11" and no one forced you to read this thread... :)

[N400QW 205]

Have to agree with Jim and the other pilots who've stated that the "core" should contain the real world features already mentioned. Easier/better access to those features for 3PDs is a MUST!After that, pile on all the eye candy they can pile on...just allow everyone to turn off the goo if they wish.See how easy that was :-lol :-lol

[LuisFelizTirado 33]

As long as I have been playing FS, it has always been a training sim and an airliner sim. Which is great for those who want to learn to fly Cessnas and the others with the Clipper Captain fantasy. I have no problem with that and never have.But, for me, and perhaps for many others, FS has never really been a lot of fun. Why? Because it does (or rather, did) not model the different types of flying that I, and many others, like.I mean small aircraft, bush flying, and even ultra-lights, gliders, balloons, gyros, hang gliders, and even races, etc. All of that is also flying, and all of that deserves space in the only Flight Simulator on the market. Particularly when one considers that many more people in real life fly ultra-lights or kit-built aircraft than Cessnas and 737s.In the last few versions, as FS has been opened to other types of flying, and as the scenery has become more detailed (thereby allowing low-and-slow flights to be meaningful and interesting), the people who have used FS as an airliner sim have complained.It is as if the rest of us do not have any right to enjoy FS, as if it can only remain an airliner sim forever, and too bad for us. No right to a trike, no right to have high-resolution terrain, or lots of trees and buildings, or birds, or animals, or animated people (which, as was pointed out in this thread, are already in FS X, although not many and only in missions.)Also, the complainers seem to think that any effort in creating those elements means that there will somehow be less done for what they consider important.They have perhaps not stopped to think that ACES has numerous people working on different aspects of the game. Just because there are birds or people will not mean that nobody will improve the flight models. The Art Team works on the birds, and they do not handle anything else, so preventing them from adding animated people does not mean that their tasks will then involve flight or weather modeling, or ATC modification (which, by the way, ACES said, 2 years ago, would no longer be improved.) The ACES developers who work on flight models will continue to improve them, in spite of animated people. The ACES developers who handle weather will continue to work on this, even if the Art Team includes more animals and birds.None of this is mutually exclusive, and it will all move forward.Those who do not want birds, detailed scenery, or hand waving can just turn those elements off, as they have always been able to do. And then, they will have their "bare-bones" sim.So, please, if you are one of those who prefers 737s, FMCs, auto-pilots, flight plannning, and auto-land to Cat.III in 0/0, understand that it does not bother us in the least if FS satisfies your idea of flight.But, please, don't try to keep FS from giving us the kind of pleasure that has always been denied us in previous versions, and that we are only now starting to experience.For example, here is David Rowberry's Airborne C4 Hang Glider jumping of from the Hinterhornalm just east of Innsbruck:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/190843.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/190844.jpgI have never had so much fun before in FS. More people are doing this in real life flying than piloting 737s. Even many real airline pilots are flying hang gliders, ultra-lights, and kit-builts, so why should FS not have that, animals, hand-waving, air marshalls, etc.Best regards.Luis

[Guest Sirocco]

Good post, Luis.

[GaryGB 10]

My sentiments too, Luis! :-) Thanks for your very well written expression of that balanced "FS perspective"... as both an end-user and highly-informed developer! :-haloGaryGB

[Guest UlfB]

Luis,Well spoken!I would like to see even more eyecandy, that is realistic and varied landscapes in FS11. My flying habits have changed from IFR to VFR with FSX. I still fly airliners, but not that often.And I hope that Microsoft and 3PDs find a descent level of cooperation, which enables 3DPs to deliver add ons without to much pain and delays after RTM.Ulf B

[Guest JIMJAM]

Flying for a living is overrated anyways.Start off flying freight and bags of bank checks living the hours of a vampire. Meals consist of what ever is left in the vending machine all washed down with 2 pots of 4 hour old thick as oil coffee.So you spend 6 hours waiting sometimes trying to catch some zzzzzs sleeping on soiled lounge couch, concrete floor, then an hour or so waiting in line on taxiway Dixie in Atlanta all to log an actual pic hour flight time.Yeee Haaa.......I am 44 and grounded, maybe for life because of Sciatica.No doubt caused by the countless hours and hours sitting on my a**.The vending machine diet had my Doc refer to me as Captain Cholesterol. Notice you do not see many Real life pilots either posting or complaining about birds,waving or trivial stuff.When you fly for a living, you WANT to be able to do things in the sim you would be busted for by the Feds.I LOVE cutting line around the Delta sky Gods in their 777s in my Spitfire.I LOVE ignoring the tower when they say Go around.I am not running around in a King Air or Baron but would rather take the X-15 or Sr-71 at mach 3 at tree level down the Vegas strip.Why? Cause I couldnt in real life.If you offered to let a 20 yr veteran City bus driver take a bus simulator for a realistic spin, yippeee, I do not think would spend much time doing it in his off time.Offer him to play Grand Theft Auto where he can mow down cars and do 100mph and jump over city hall, he just might break a smile:-) Nahh, try X-Plane and its just DEAD. It tries to be serious and comes across as lifeless and sterile.As I said above, pile on the eyecandy and whatever you can fit on the disc but make it a "option".There is plenty of room for the casual gamer, the wanna be, the student,the rivot counting,time acceleration is a sin perfectionist, the real world pilot and also the Walmart,"where are the guns and Aliens" player.What could kill the FS series however, is another repeat of FSX where only the top 5% of machines and very knowledgeable and dedicated can get it to run at a decent level. Performance is VERY important, even more so than MORE eyecandy and features for the next release.We have large a thriving addon community and are blessed to have them so we can enhance and build our own personal virtual world in which to fly in.So MS and Aces, PLZ do not take the "future proof" or "program for the future hardware" road again.

[Guest UlfB]

>So MS and Aces, PLZ do not take the "future proof" >or "program for the future hardware" road again.I hope they will. I want every release of FS to be a big step forward and I would really be disappointed if I could max all sliders out and get solid 30 fps flying over New York.Maybe the Intel Nehalem cpu's and the next generation graphic cards will run FS11 with acceptable fps.Ulf BCore2Duo X6800 3.3GHz4GB RAM Corsair XMS2-8500C5BFG 8800GTX, Creative SB X-FiFSX Acc/SP2, Vista 32

[byork 2,260]

>I hope that Microsoft and 3PDs find a descent level of>cooperation, which enables 3DPs to deliver add ons without to>much pain and delays after RTM.>>Ulf BWe should start on a pool on this. Given that much of the backward compatibility is going to be bid adieu in FS11 (which is a good thing), the transition period is going to be fascinating.-Bryan

[Guest JIMJAM]

Just remember..We are but a small percentage of the market.Not many are going to spend $400 or more for a video card not including ram,proc ect when their X-Box does not even cost that much.Very few visit the forums much less buy add ons that cost more than the program.I have 2 freinds that fooled around with FSX, got frustrated and deleted it. One still has fs9 loaded with no addons, does not know what defrag means and to me looks horrible. But he could care less and has a blast.I personally have given up on PC games and have went to the PS3. I enjoy 1st person shooters,Half Life, Tactical and adventure games.But bottom line is that I just grew tired of the endless tweaking,patch waiting,Driver chasing,trying to stay up with the hardware race.FSX is the only PC game I have loaded.And by the look at the shelves and watching the Electronics Entertainment E3 upcoming titles, I am not the only one who is leaving the PC for the console.

[BaronKen 147]

Great post Luis, you've stated my feelings exactly. I personally would sure hate to see ACES do away with all of the gains and strides made with autogen and the experience it provides for certain kinds of flight. There is no way I would go back to the old versions without it, nor would I want to. Well said, and I hope Phil and the team is listening as well.Thanks

[Guest grapesh]

What's the big deal? There is one platform for both TS and FS, if train guys made waving men, why not use them in FS? Once FS guys make a good weather engine, I'm sure they'll share it with TS team.After all, everyone remembers the FSX teaser with men waving to the rescue helicopter on the oil rig. So, if digital men will finally follow animals into FS world - how it's bad? With ESP, we should see many targeted developments in simulation that should benefit various applications and waving people are just that - a specific feature set that can be used in any simulator. No need to panic, I'm sure many other things that overlap in these two simulators will receive a close attention: trees and grass moving with wind, weather affecting visual perception etc. Not to mention that there are also people working on flight-only and train-only parts too. Cheers,=S.V.=Intel Q6600@4x2.40GHz, Intel DP35DP MB, 2x1Gb DDR2, nVidia Quadro FX 3400, XigmaTec HDT-S963, Evercool Fox-1, ViewSonic 19', SATA 250Gb+160Gb, MS SideWinder 2 Force Feedback // Dual-boot: (1) MS Windows XP Home SP2, (2) Fedora Core 9. // MS Flight Simulator X SP2, FlightGear v1.0

[Guest sillyeagle]

I for one want the option of bringing top of the line hardware at the release of FS11 to its knees, with the option of cranking things up to the next level when hardware permits, which has always been one of the coolest features of flight sim. I'd hate to see that feature go away simply becuase some people don't know how to turn their sliders down.As long as the "ultra high" predefines run smoothly on top of line hardware of the day I don't see why other users should be robbed of the option to take advantage of even better hardware.

[Geofa 108]

Hi Luis-As usual you have made a great post that pretty much somes it up....Perhaps why many of us abandoned the fs series for a number of years for other sims...Having flown almost the entire US my flying partner (and wife along with mine) are planning future trips including the nice region you live in-especially during the horrible winters we face which I am sure you are unfamiliar with.Perhaps I can buy you a beer sometime?Best,GeofMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Guest Seadog]

I wrote something somewhat similar several years ago when UT for FS9 brought the MSFS franchise into the VFR flyers realm, and I was so excited, I gushed. It was fantastic to see accurate vector scenery. Such things had little impact on the Tube flyers, but we who wanted sophisticated recreation rather than virtual employment were ecstatic. It's only gotten better with FSX.As for TS2 and relevant animation of simulated participant humans, I say HOORAY. Way to go. Clever and interesting. Nice expansion of the scope of the simulation. Let's see what else you have.I take a small amount of exception with regard to the longevity of MSFS as a training sim, since I think that is a glaring weakness, even today. It is superficial and inadequate. Nevertheless, I take your point that the franchise has specialized in sterility and utilitarianism. The lack of decent ambient sound was deafening until recently, for example.Whether one seeks sophisticated recreation or virtual employment, this simulation franchise occupies an extreme edge of the game category. I don't care how the space is expanded to include new purchasers, so long as the expansion is not a disguised shift from technical sophistication to functionless graphical animation.Core ESP is starting out focused on simulations. I'll watch that space, but I think that's a narrow focus that tacks in the wrong direction. But, it may be where the revenue is today. Re-creation of the actual living world is where the multitude of unfulfilled implementations actually is. And that is precisely where VFR exists.It may disparage too much the element of virtual employment to relegate it to a fantasy, while not so characterizing the recreational flyer. I have no illusion that my enjoyment of recreational VFR flight in MSFS is anything but a self-deception in which I am a willing participant. I suspect my procedural colleagues are likewise happily engaged in self-deception in their chosen form of recreation. To that extent, both qualify as fantasy, and neither is diminished by being so characterized.Agreeing with your major point, the two fantasies are quite different, and the one has always been the focus while the other has only recently been given something approaching parity. I think the important point is to recognize that the virtual employment dimension of th fantasy is a whole lot of fun for those who like it, but boring to tears for those whose fantasy is VFR recreational flying. And vice versa, for the most part. For the one group, it's all about the office. For the other, it's all about what's outside. That's probably too strict a dichotomy, but it serves the present purpose reasonably well.Phil can't buy a break, can he. He reveals an amazing new element of the Core and promises it will be implemented only to the extent that it doesn't degrade performance, and catches both praise and a raft of suspicion that the franchise will be tarnished, the important elements will be forgotten and that performance will be degraded. Oh, and that it will lead to X-Boxism. Anybody remember Missions? The stuff that tons of users really enjoy? Anybody remember he pulled FSX's fat out of the fire and saved it to the extent possible with two humongous service releases? If there's anyone I've ever seen in this context who's trustworthy, it's him. I'm not worried about a waving engineer. Just as I'm no longer worried about a wavering leader at ACES.The only thing I'm worried about is the continuing scuttlebutt that the tools necessary to create third party add-ons are beginning to be out of the reach of all but the well-heeled. However politely we put it, there has never been a day when the stock MSFS program was sufficient for anyone with any deep interest in the subject, but it always served as an adequate container in which others could play on a reasonably equal and inexpensive footing. To the extent that extensibility is diminished, the desirability of any particular MSFS version is diminished, and could set in motion a long-term decline.Anyway, the market is broad. Lots of folks want an accommodating simulator that can backstop both professional commercial aviation simulation and recreational personal aviation, and do so without requiring commercial investment levels of capital to produce add-ons.Well put, Luis. just adding my two thousand cents' worth. :-lol -Doug