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WarpD

Copyright theft again!

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Hi AllSomeone e mailed me to say my A-22 Foxbat model was uploaded to a group website.we need to name and shame these people but i will only show you the proof!http://www.simgameit.com/i asked them politely to remove it and the site owner almost instantly barred me from the forum and all those that posted in my supportI am totally sick of the of my stolen work turning up on Websites & Ebay discsJust wanted to warn other developers as your stuff will be here sooner or later and these guys don't follow the LawSorry if this is the wrong section guys & feel free to move it to the correct place if you need toRegardsRick

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Rick, I surely don't see your A-22 Foxbat listed there for download, unless it's hidden somewhere other than their very short "Download" list... ???

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Hi Billyes mate it's still there.the link was their frontpage until about 4 hours ago when they edited the site.now you go to FSX when it asks you to choose then you will see STOLSeekers at the top right and it's at the bottom of that page when it opens.RegardsRick

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Confirmed... it's stolen. They even include the original "readme" file.

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Yep... I found it now. Good grief, "they've" got lousy tastes in their 'custom liveries' though... ...particularly the "texture.stolspace" version! :-erks As distasteful as their practices might be however, the fact that they've taken pains to NOT enforce any claim on the files, and indeed insist on giving "the original author" (you) full credit for the "model and other componenets," unfortunately makes the use of the term "copyright theft" specious... "This aircraft was modded and repainted by SimGameIt. All credit for the model and other components goes to the original author. Ive included the original readme file for reference to those forementioned."...I had rather hoped to find a "smoking gun" in their download. :-samurai

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Hi BillNot sure what you mean My copyright says the model cannot be uploaded.which they have done.my annoyance at this type of thief is when i kindly asked them to remove my file by posting on their they barred me from their forum.The model is covered by Horizon Simulations Copyright anyway as they had to agree to the copyright before they could download the model in the first place.RegardsRick

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Unfortunately this happens all the time. My H-21C is on about 15 sites, only a few of them with permission - despite a similar message that it can't be uploaded without my consent. It's not so much that I mind the wide distribution, but it's nice to ask.

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This kind of unauthorized file-snatching by lazy webmasters is very common. My FlightSim and AvSim uploads pop up on other sites continually. FSPlanet is one of the long-standing offenders, but there are dozens of others.I must admit I get annoyed when the bootleg sites don't use counters so I can measure the total downloads. Since my work is freeware, that's only ego satisfaction, of course.I don't know what one can do except relax and live with it... or stop uploading.Cheers,Glenn

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Well, one could view it as a compliment, particularly sites like the Simgameit.com folks, who have an extremely limited selection of models. This means that only the very best are offered...

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Hi Billyes much like you would view it as a compliment when an Eaglesoft model turns up for download on their site.it makes no difference in my view and most developers view.there is right & there is wrong there is no maybeRegardsRick

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>yes much like you would view it as a compliment when an>Eaglesoft model turns up for download on their site.>>it makes no difference in my view and most developers view.>>there is right & there is wrong >there is no maybeRick, I do not disagree with you one iota. I have an extremely well-developed and conservative ethical/moral viewpoint. However, I have determined that there are more important things to which I should invest myself rather than continuing to tilt at this particular windmill.I would posit though that there are entirely seperate motivating factors at work when it comes to some website such as Simgameit.com (mis)appropriating a freeware model for their member's use than there is some actual hacker cracking a commercial model.In the case of freeware, it could be viewed as a form of left-handed compliment, but in the instance of a hacker/cracker it is merely a case of a challenge: "can I crack this protection scheme" and has nothing whatever to do with the quality (or lack thereof) of a particular model.

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While I know everyone thinks that thier "copyright" allows them to control the distribution of their freeware, I doubt anyone ever consulted a copyright attorney. More likely, people just thought of the limitation or copied the idea from someone else's readme.txt.I suspect that if you consulted an attorney you would find that while a copyright is designed to provide some limited protection of your IP (intellectual property), it does not provide for such ad-hoc limitations. You might want to review wikipedia on the subject.You will note that there are no such similar copyright distribution limitations. For example, you don't open a book you have purchased at Barnes & Noble and note a copyright, "May not be sold at Books-a-Million".That said, this has nothing to do with copyright per se, and certainly is not theft. That said, it might perhaps be a violation of your software's licensing, if your license is properly disclosed and agreed to prior to them downloading it. However, this would still not be classified as "theft" in the eyes of the law, so I'd be careful exposing yourself to any libel lawsuit just in case. Certain US software licenses requires that you agree to not distribute it overseas, for example, but there are laws that make it illegal too.This is not to say that I don't agree that it would be wrong to not respect your license, and/or wishes in the matter, just that you might want to actually see an attorney before you assume you are protected legally.Like Bill says, you might also want to pick your battles, your blood pressure will thank you.Patrick

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Actually, there are indeed copyright distribution limitations.Barnes & Noble doesn't distribute... thus it's actually a bad example. A book publishing firm does the distribution and they generally have a contract that gives them the 'right' to distribute the book. No other publishing firm can do it, as the contracts are usually exclusive. Thus, indeed there are copyright distribution limitations. In fact, they use the fact it's a copyrighted work to enforce the publishing rights.Publishing control is most definitely something the IP owner has control/say over. Even legally. However, enforcing that on the internet is rather expensive.As for the rest, I agree... pick your battles.

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well to be quite honest it should be a compliment.....i never meant any harm and the only reason i dealt with the issue the way i did was in reaction to their initial action....rick could have emailed me in private and discussed the matter yet he chose to be tacky and do it publicly on our forum......i do what i do for a few reasons...1 and most important to learn...i want to make complete planes like you guys some day....#2 is our planes dont fly the same...i modify the flight config files and diffrent planes serve us with diffrent purposes......but all this doesnt even matter anymore as i started college for game design and someday in the future ill have payware....payware quality freeware...and maybe even complete games eventually......simgameit has exploded in popularity beyond my wildest dreams so im going to nurture it...why not?......and what are we hurting?...we are a non-profit christian organization and whenever there is any "profit" it will go to build a church...were terrible people i know......and as for rick.....that foxbat is a beautiful plane....you have alot of talent...too bad you lack people skills and understanding......rick even physically threatened me in a sim-outhouse forum.....way out of line.....sometimes i wonder if hes mad because my version is more popular...oh well i just felt like i should have a say here as well...but i wanted everyone to get their views out before i butted in......thanks for reading......mike aka simgameit

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>well to be quite honest it should be a compliment.....i never>meant any harm and the only reason i dealt with the issue the>way i did was in reaction to their initial action....rick>could have emailed me in private and discussed the matter yet>he chose to be tacky and do it publicly on our forum......i do>what i do for a few reasons...1 and most important to>learn...i want to make complete planes like you guys some>day....#2 is our planes dont fly the same...i modify the>flight config files and diffrent planes serve us with diffrent>purposes......but all this doesnt even matter anymore as i>started college for game design and someday in the future ill>have payware....payware quality freeware...and maybe even>complete games eventually......simgameit has exploded in>popularity beyond my wildest dreams so im going to nurture>it...why not?......and what are we hurting?...we are a>non-profit christian organization and whenever there is any>"profit" it will go to build a church...were terrible people i>know......and as for rick.....that foxbat is a beautiful>plane....you have alot of talent...too bad you lack people>skills and understanding......rick even physically threatened>me in a sim-outhouse forum.....way out of line.....sometimes i>wonder if hes mad because my version is more popular...oh well>i just felt like i should have a say here as well...but i>wanted everyone to get their views out before i butted>in......thanks for reading......mike aka simgameitAs a Christian, I would expect you of all people to understand theft is wrong. It is not yours, it is not yours to control/distribute/modify/etc. Doing so is theft, which is wrong.People skills aren't required to deal with thieves.

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there was no theft...sheesh you guys need to pick up a book or two....you cant steal freeware lol.....and if i was stealing it i wouldnt include original read mes or credit the original authors.....and please dont use religion in this...people have twisted it enough over the years to fit their needs dont you think?......what i think is going to be funny is when we finish school and possibly code our own game/simulators ....that readme file by the way isnt worth the txt document its written on....i have 4 patents and i do own copyrights....i did not use a lawyer to do it i did it all my self so i understand the laws very well...i wouldnt do what i do if it was illegal...and to steal something you have to claim ownership of something that is not yours and i have not done that....i could have made it diffrent where people would have to first download ricks foxbat and then they could install mine which would alias to like the model and panel but the whole start of simgameit was to make it easier for people to install aircraft...i know im not going to win this arguement and frankly i could care less.......people are dying in iraq because we have a greedy president....people are homeless in the streets...we are killing our own planet.....yet the battle you choose to fight is that i made another version of someones plane.......dam just put me down in the books next to a really bad dude lol sheesh.

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>there was no theft...sheesh you guys need to pick up a book>or two....you cant steal freeware lol.....and if i was>stealing it i wouldnt include original read mes or credit the>original authors.....and please dont use religion in>this...people have twisted it enough over the years to fit>their needs dont you think?......what i think is going to be>funny is when we finish school and possibly code our own>game/simulators ....that readme file by the way isnt worth the>txt document its written on....i have 4 patents and i do own>copyrights....i did not use a lawyer to do it i did it all my>self so i understand the laws very well...i wouldnt do what i>do if it was illegal...and to steal something you have to>claim ownership of something that is not yours and i have not>done that....i could have made it diffrent where people would>have to first download ricks foxbat and then they could>install mine which would alias to like the model and panel but>the whole start of simgameit was to make it easier for people>to install aircraft...i know im not going to win this>arguement and frankly i could care less.......people are dying>in iraq because we have a greedy president....people are>homeless in the streets...we are killing our own>planet.....yet the battle you choose to fight is that i made>another version of someones plane.......dam just put me down>in the books next to a really bad dude lol sheesh.Theft is theft. What you steal doesn't reduce the fact you stole it. Ownership can not be dismissed.Please list the patent #'s you own, since you've made the claim.As for religion, you brought it up... in your original post.Wrong is wrong... the fact you can not see that is truly saddening.

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>Yep... I found it now. Good grief, "they've" got lousy>tastes in their 'custom liveries' though... >>...particularly the "texture.stolspace" version! :-erks >>As distasteful as their practices might be however, the fact>that they've taken pains to NOT enforce any claim on>the files, and indeed insist on giving "the original author">(you) full credit for the "model and other componenets,">unfortunately makes the use of the term "copyright theft">specious... >>"This aircraft was modded and repainted by SimGameIt. All>credit for the model and other components goes to the original>author. Ive included the original readme file for reference to>those forementioned.">>...I had rather hoped to find a "smoking gun" in their>download. :-samurai ya know i think the saddest thing about all of this is there is someone (me) that is doing all i can to learn this stuff....to make freeware airplanes that people enjoy to fly...now one thing people love about simgameit is our willingness to help others learn...whether it be with technical issues or how to do textures or whatever....you would think others would welcome a newcomer or maybe even help them learn.....thats what makes simgameit popular is that we arent even trying to compete with others....there is no need to....its not like theirs tons of money to be made from fsx planes....take a look at torrents sometime.....lots of people are flying the planes but you really think think their buying them?....and im being attacked for toying with a free aircraft lol....i just dont understand all the fuss over nothing.....by the way eaglesoft planes are nice....i have to say that aerosoft is one of my favs.....you all do really nice stuff...yes even you rick...i cant wait till i have my modeling class in college so i can learn to do that and im studying xml on my own time so i can code my own gauges...some of the new planes are really neat...like the aerosoft super cub...i have to add oil to the plane or the engine will blow..that is so cool.....anyways good work guys...all of you even the ones that want me off the face of the earth lol.....oh and by the way i know some of my "paints" are really cheesy....im not a photoshop guru but im getting better.....im just trying to learn guys and nothing will stop me from doing just that....have a good day guys im off to play a bit of battlefield 2 and i might even take a flight in fsx later

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ok ill have to get my paperwork as i dont run around bragging about patents.....sheesh 2 are for medical devices and 2 are speaker boxes for cars....and again...i did not say i made the model and everything so there for i did not claim ownership so therefore i did not steal it......and the only reason i brought up religion is i wanted to set the tone of what our final goal is and that is to build a church...i could use my time and efforts in learning to crack payware if youd like....nah i think ill stick with the current plan......seems im on the right track even if a handful of people disagree.....only a few hate us for what we do...take a look at how many support us.....even microsoft themselves feel were worthy to add us to their links.....we must be doing something right...enough is enough guys...but i can keep playing the games if youd like....and rick can keep sending people into our teamspeak and to our forums....but you will never get anywhere and we will still be here....the choice is up to you guys as to how to spend your time...ill spend mine learning something useful.....not fighting a usless fight

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>ok ill have to get my paperwork as i dont run around bragging>about patents.....sheesh 2 are for medical devices and 2 are>speaker boxes for cars....and again...i did not say i made the>model and everything so there for i did not claim ownership so>therefore i did not steal it......and the only reason i>brought up religion is i wanted to set the tone of what our>final goal is and that is to build a church...i could use my>time and efforts in learning to crack payware if youd>like....nah i think ill stick with the current plan......seems>im on the right track even if a handful of people>disagree.....only a few hate us for what we do...take a look>at how many support us.....even microsoft themselves feel were>worthy to add us to their links.....we must be doing something>right...enough is enough guys...but i can keep playing the>games if youd like....and rick can keep sending people into>our teamspeak and to our forums....but you will never get>anywhere and we will still be here....the choice is up to you>guys as to how to spend your time...ill spend mine learning>something useful.....not fighting a usless fightIt's a shame you just aren't wise enough to see the error of your ways. Seriously. Morally speaking you know that the aircraft was not yours to do with as you please. If you want to use/modify something which belongs to someone else... you ask. Why didn't you ask? Why aren't you willing to admit you should have asked for permission?Microsoft's link page on FSInsider.com has pretty much every site they could think of on it. No bragging rights there.If you want this to "go away"... do the right thing. That's all it takes.

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I just checked a few more of your aircraft. It seems not a single one of the ones I looked at are actually yours. I believe I'm seeing a pattern developing.Oh, and it's also really bad of you to "rename" and present these aircraft as "Simgameit" aircraft. They aren't YOURS.

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yea i think ive had enough...want me to dedicate all my spare time to doing this and seek out certain peoples aircraft in particular?.......i can you know and there isnt anything anyone can do to stop me....go ahead challenge me and see what you get...at this time im working on a couple but i can turn that into about 20 i have here to do...yes we only modify them moron...it took you that long to figure out what we do.....ive also said before the reason we put our name on them is because their performance has been modified and i dont want people installing one of the planes from our site looking for realistic flight characteristics....that way people can tell the diffrence from the name of the plane...by all means keep upP.S. oh yea.....wah......id give you all a bottle but my 3 month old is using it right now.

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We in the community always ask for permission.Most people upload a repaint without putting another persons work in with their repaint. Its a standard. If you ever do distribute another persons work, which in this case, is an entire team, not just Rick, as he had done it for another group, then you are risking your credibility.In this world of FS, you dont want to do that.I know you are thinking we're just getting upset over nothing.. But perhaps you are not seeing through others eyes. This man is upset and he has alot (alot) of followers. Hoping you're into doing the right thing.BillLHC

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You probably should have let your 3 month old post that message. He/She would probably have kept an account here. You didn't.

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I don't understand what's so hard to grasp about getting permission to use/modifiy someone else's stuff.The threats... unbelievably silly.He just needs to do what's right.

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