I like how on his site he's whining about us stomping on his religous freedoms..lol. Wonder what his church would say when they find out he got ordained so he wouldn't have to pay taxes. He calls himself a minister but yet he breaks every law in the book.

Hmmm... I'm an ordained priest (retired), yet I still pay taxes, including FICA (Social Security), and property taxes on my home.

Let's see...where to start...>>that readme file by the way isnt worth the txt document its written onActually, it is. Freeware copyrights are taken very seriously in the flight sim community. Just because Rick isn't likely to launch a legal attack against you, doesn't make what you did right. Surely a man as holy as you can see that. As of today the file is still on your site, after he's made his wishes very clear.>>to steal something you have to claim ownership of something that is not yours and i have not done thatSo I guess I can steal your TV...I'm not claiming ownership.>>i did not use a lawyer to do it i did it all my self so i understand the laws very wellI love that one!>>id give you all a bottle but my 3 month old is using it right nowPlease tell me you're kidding about having a 3 month old. Please.

>>>id give you all a bottle but my 3 month old is using it>right now>>Please tell me you're kidding about having a 3 month old.>Please.>>Actuially I believe his kids 4 months old now? Also I'm sorry I was mistaken on freeware, so yes that is true. Along with original creations having an autmatic copyright on them. HOWEVER, there is a new law comming (slightly off subject) called the Orphan Copyright Law which would change a lot of this. Back onto current times though, I'm amazed you aren't happy that your plane is readily available on the website. Seriously, I just ask one thing. Why not instead of having us pull it down, we come to some sort of agreement. Such as we say have to undo the changes (example) so that both parties are happy. ####, I can see if we could possibly go into a partnership and have your planes on the SimGameIt site available to a load of people.Also I can care less about what everyone thinks about me, that's something I've learned in my life (however short) that other peoples opionions and my reputation are simple bull. You like me or hate me, but either way you would be doing wrong yourself by simply calling me a bad person because of seeing someones plane modified and put up on our site.Again, I want this to end and end well with a win-win situation. So, Rick if you can, please contact me either through teamspeak or give me your e-mail and we can come to a compromise here so we both end this as happy campers.

His aircraft wouldn't fall under the law you mention... since it's designed to target, and I quote, "copyrighted works whose owners may be impossible to identify and locate." Clearly the aircraft's owner is identified, and can be located.As far as resolution... you should start with good faith and remove the aircraft until such time as you obtain an agreement/permission to post it.You should also do the same with all the other aircraft your group has downloaded/modified that also have explicit copyright restrictions regarding downloads from other web sites.Doing the right thing... that's what everyone's looking to see happen.

First of all, read into the Orphans thing more. It only has a copyright and is only owned by you if its submitted to a privatized search engine and is shown up during the search.And also this is not compromising. Putting the fact that it is there away for the moment and talking this out will help more then simply saying again and again to remove it. And also SimGameIt has agreed to possibly putting Rick's name on it along with sim's and although I have not mentioned putting Rick's aircraft on the site or anything yet and doing something along those lines, I can almost guarentee he would aceept.Again, put aside the fact it is there now and let's compromise and come to a resolution which lets both parties win here. Now, repeating myself to get the ppint across, forget the fact it is there as we work on this to make this more efficient and go by faster.I'm a reasonable guy and I'm not here defending SimGameIt as some of you may think, but I'm here to come to a resolution with this mess and let both parties win instead of having one of the two have to suffer. So, let's work this out somehow. Again, contact me or give me a way to contact you through an instant messenger or something so we can talk this out faster and easier.

Um... no, you're quite incorrect in your interpretation of the Orphans law. In fact, you're so incorrect I strongly suggest you seek a lawyer before ever touching anything that was created by someone other than you. The Orphans law doesn't work as you're claiming in any way, shape or form. I've read the ENTIRE bill.As for the aircraft.. no one is going to "put aside" the fact it's there illegally, except perhaps SimGameIt.com and it's staff. I've proven, very clearly, that SimGameIt indeed violated the copyright. I've proven, very clearly, that SimGameIt has no legal standing regarding modification of contents and removal of the original author's file names and replacing it with SimGameIt's name, thus implying it as their own "original work".Remove them. Do the right thing.Demanding compromise while refusing to do what's right isn't the right thing to do. Compliance with the copyright is the fastest and easiest thing to do. Refusal is not a wise choice.

This is what I'm talking about. You are not thinking open minded or for the best of both parties, simply your own. That is not how it works. So let's look at things here.SimGameIt is not going to remove the planes, no matter what. As far as Sim looks at it, the planes are freeware and credit was clearly given multiple times. By giving credit along with posting all the upgrades/changes and the original skins and readme and evertyhing basically, Sim feels that this is an OK thing and will not remove the aircraft.Rick Piper is not going to stop until the aircraft is removed. Rick wants his aircraft removed because he feels posession over it.Sorry I don't know much more about Rick's side here. But likle I was stating. A partnership of sorts would do a lot for both parties. Rick gets a load of publicity and not only that, his aircraft on our site could have a Rick and Simgameit version to them, meaning his aircraft are there and he is getting a lot of attention also meaning that his aircraft are more known. This is a win-win here. SimGameIt keeps its planes along with getting more planes to make available. Rick gets a place to put his aircraft and gets attention. Not to mention this situation is resolved. I ask that you consider this a while and that Rick Piper himself emails me at [email protected] with a response.I feel that this is a fair way to end this all and that it would be best for both parties.

Rick gets plenty of publicity without your 'help'. Sounds to me like what you want is the exact situation you already have...which is wrong.Out of curiosity I downloaded this plane and installed it. During the installation you have to agree to this...Copyright and Distibution:This aircraft is released as limited Freeware. with the below conditions.Copyright © Rick Piper. All rights reserved.Rotax 912 Sounds provided with permission by Barry Blaisdell Any gauge provided with this model can not be used in another panel or modified without the permission of its author/s.That also means using any of the sounds/gauges/textures/flight dynamics!!!!!!You cannot use any of my Gauge faces or Needle textures in any project without my prior permission.You may repaint this aircraft, but do not upload it to the WWW . (Textures only)For other any changes please contact the author.This aircraft may not be sold or included on a CD without prior agreement. (no Ebay Discs).Freeware does not mean you can sell my work!.The use of this aircraft is at your own risk, the author cannot be held responsible. This is LIMITED FREEWARE. These files are strictly for your own personal, non-commercial use. Any redistribution, repackaging or reselling of these files in any form is expressly prohibited without the permission of the listed authors.RegardsRick Looks pretty clear to me! Wanting to reach an 'agreement' at this point is laughable. That should have happened first! Frankly it is obvious that your group is going to continue this practice regardless of what anyone here thinks. I see no value in continuing this thread...moderator?

>This is what I'm talking about. You are not thinking open minded or for the best of both parties, simply your own. That is not how it works. So let's look at things here.Why does it have to work for both parties, did you make it, or contribute in making it ? I think not, Ricks time was invested in making it, so it is his descision who host it, and who does not. >Rick Piper is not going to stop until the aircraft is removed. Rick wants his aircraft removed because he feels posession over it.I don't blame him, HE OWNS IT.>A partnership of sorts would do a lot for both parties. Rick gets a load of publicity and not only that, his aircraft on our site could have a Rick and Simgameit version to them, meaning his aircraft are there and he is getting a lot of attention also meaning that his aircraft are more knownI some how do not think Rick Piper need to be more known. The man has his own website (most of us download them from there, but do not then host them on are own sites, and try to claim them :-)), and I can think of a lot more where his name crops up. As someone posted before he has a lot of followers.>I feel that this is a fair way to end this all and that it would be best for both partiesFairest way to end this, is to do what countless number of people on this forum have asked you to do, and remove Rick's aircraft from your site, respecting Rick's wishes, not to mention the copyright.

>I see no value in continuing this thread...moderator?Actually, this thread needs to remain open.

Ed, I only make that comment because the opposition has already stated they won't remove it. At some point you have to realize when an argument has become a waste of time. These guys don't care what you think-they just want you to think they do. At this point we are probably just cheap entertainment to them...Robert

>Wanting to reach an 'agreement' at this point is laughable.>That should have happened first! Frankly it is obvious that>your group is going to continue this practice regardless of>what anyone here thinks. >>I see no value in continuing this thread...moderator?I completely agree with you that this discussion is useless. The idea of comming to an agreement was really an attempt at hoping that both sides could come out of this and possibly keep everyone happy here, although you are right and it is a bit laughable. And actually if anything, you are one of the few here who has made sense in your posts and therefore you got a lot of respect from me. There is no point in truly continuing this discussion as SimGameIt will not remove it. So, as he said, moderator please close this and this discussion is over.

Rick Piper, Tim 'Piglet' Conrad, and who knows how many others! You guys know full well what you do, and have no intention of changing. THAT is why the thread is a waste of time.

I have to agree with Ed, Mr Moderator please leave this thread open. milla da killa, I can see why you want it closed, bad publicity. Maybe we should all join SimGameIt forum, would take a bit of time to ban us all :-) while they were doing that it would take them away from modelling there own aircraft, wait I forgot. They don't make there own, just use other peoples and claim that they are there's, as they lack the skills and brain power to make them. Silly me :-roll