Sign in to follow this  
brucewtb

Strange AI Chatter

Recommended Posts

Just curious as to why I have European Regional appaearing in the AI chatter at Melbourne Airport Australia seems very out of place? Have also had some other strange airlines out of Sydney eg Lan Chile I think they have flights to Australia but Air New Zealand is the carrier.Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

are you saying those ai aircraft were not at those locations when you heard the chatter?i'll look at it, if you can duplicate the problemlaunch rcv4click debugload the .plnclick start rcduplicate the problemzip up the .log, and email it to me, with a description of the problem, iow, the ai that was out of placejd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks I will try that. I guess with Lan Chile the error may have been with Utimate Traffic in that if UT gets its traffic from published flights there may be some confusion where one airline's flights are in fact operated by another carrier which is common practise. But I think it is most unlikely that a European regional airline would operate any flights into Melbourne International on the other side of the world, but I will attempt to recreate the flight. I did have a look when I was taxying to the ramp and could only see the usual domestic and international taffic.Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce,Looking at the data RC uses, it seems one of your files may have become corrupted sightly. It turns out the entries for European Regional, Ram Express, and our REX (aaha!) fall very close to each other and somehow got misaligned.Go to your rcv4data folder, and delete the c4.csv file. Then start RC, and a new file will be downloaded for you. If it does not download automatically, you may have to click the 'Check For Updates' button.If there was a error in your c4.csv file which caused the wrong callsign to be called, it should be fixed now.Subs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, if I had been flying out of my local regional airport YMER (Merimbula) and heard European Regional over the AI chatter as a REX Saab 340B taxied by I may have come close to figuring this out.Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you have just AI chatter checked without prerecorded chatter? Since you use AI with UT flightplans this is all you should need.Just an addition to the other postings.You might also look at the Melbourne arrival schedule in UT to see if any Euro Regional aircraft appear. I don't recall how to do that since I have another AI schedule reporting tool to look at that but I recall there are UT functions for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

or run in debug, and send me the .log - that will tell me exactly why an ai is called what it is calledand what ai are presentjd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys,I had my first try with RC-4 out of YMML. Two things. 1. The ATC voice was a painfully slow English accent and most unrealistic; and 2. The ATC recording of clearance delivery that was playing was of real ATC/pilot communications, the only problem was it was Brisbane (YBBN) clearance delivery, some 700 nm to the north.And a third point. I couldn't get the the program to say 'Qantas seven thirty seven', it kept on with 'Qantas seven three seven'.Neil B(Retired Australian ATC)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) if this is v4.01, make sure all the sliders are to the far left, not the right2) if you are listening to pre-recorded chatter, then this is entirely possible. that's why i don't use pre-recorded chatter. if you have pre-recorded chatter clicked, unclick it, and use just the ai chatter (be sure interact with ai is clicked)3) that sounds like the non-faa way of calling the aircraft numbers. if 7 37 proper in australia. you could try putting "7 37" without the quotes in the field on the options page. that may force rc to override the number pronunciation routine.jd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

or . . . :)With a fully downloaded FSUIPC (not just an interim version) registered or not in the folder it creates is a utility called AI Traffic Look. This fires up in a seperate window and can display ground and air AI in the monitored area. You would switch to it when you hear the suspect call. It shows the flight ID, departure, and destination points and other good info for troubleshooting. Since it might affect a performance hit when it queries every few seconds, use this for troubleshooting only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JD,As i understand it, the FAA have always used the 'Group Form' for air carrier callsigns. So United 756 is spoken as United seven fifty six'. This form of callsign ennunciation has been the norm in Australia now for about 7 or 8 years. In the RC manual it states that this can be implemented by putting a space between the numbers. So I would have put 7 56. Should I have put 7 5 6 ?Neil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the RC manual it states that this can be implemented by putting a space between the numbers.True, it does, Neil, but as far as I know, this only affects the way your call sign is spoken and not the way numbers are spoken generally by RC's controllers and pilots. This form of callsign ennunciation has been the norm in Australia now for about 7 or 8 years.Yes, we knew about the use of group form in Australia - the Australian AIP is available online - but because of the way RC4 works, it was not implemented. Just to make it clear, outside of the USA, Canada and a few adjacent territories which are known to use FAA procedures, RC does not simulate the procedures of any single country but uses a generic set based on ICAO Standards and Recommended Practices.If you're ex-ATC, you'll know that countries are free to file differences from ICAO SARPS and just about all of them do! So, as I'm sure you'll appreciate, it was impossible to include all these national and regional variations in this version of RC - the first one to really attempt to replicate non-US procedures - so some compromise was necessary. As with all compromises, it's not been possible to please all of the people all of the time but I think we've succeeded in providing a good general impression of what ATC is like outside the US. I can't speak for Doug or jd but I'd guess that future versions may well address individual country's procedures but not this one.Now, if group form really is the major "thing" for you, it is possible to change all the Australian FIRs to FAA instead of ICAO procedures but be aware that it's all or nothing - you'll get your group form numbers but everything else - procedures, phraseology etc. - will be American too. If you're happy with this, let me know and I'll explain the changes you'll need to make but don't forget, you'll lose things like the 10,000ft Australian Transition Altitude so think carefully before you do it.Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7 5 6 should be pronounce seven five sixjd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tip. Back home now and able to test and yes no doubt about it RC is mistakenly calling the Australian Airline Regional Regional Express "Regional Europe" - see screenshot taken from the AI Traffic Look readout. Sounds very out of place, so how to fix?Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i see "Regional E", and since i don't have a "regional E" in my table, i make a guesssometime ai makers leave out the spaces for their carrier namesso i look up "RegionalE" - and i find "Regional Europe" which would be a good guess, since the numbers at the end wipe out everything after the "E"does that make sense?so, "Regional E" make me think it should be "Regional Europe", so that is what i call it.is this an ai that you modified, with special names?what is the atc call sign for "regional express"? if it is "regional" and you know how to change the ai call sign, change it from "regional express" to "regional"then i'll call it regionali'm not sure that explanation makes any sense.you could also edit the c4.csv file with NOTEPADand remove the line:RegionalEurope,RegionalEurope,R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok a further test. I parked my Virgin Blue 737 close to the REX ramp at Sydney international. Loaded RC and waited. After about five minutes "Regional Europe" asked for startup clearance and the Regional Express (REX) Saab 340b you can see in the screenshot duly sprung into life and pushed back onto the tarmac. I have also downloaded a fresh c4.csv but this makes no difference the error persists.Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a Regional Europe call that is legitimate that is in the RC table C4 of .wav listings. The AI look table picture you provided returns the truncated Regional E in slot 2 so that is what RC matched unless the full call is actually returned.In the real ICAO tables I could not find a radio call sign for "RXA" in several I looked up - the field was blank possibly because it is not considered international. If you know the AI or flyable aircraft in the flightplan that is landing, look in the aircraft.cfg for that paint under (fltsim.x)at the line such as atc_airline=AIR FRANCE and see what's in there for RXA. An entry in C4 and an airline name .wav file would have to be created I believe.I am running Ultimate Traffic and at least under the name Australian Regional Express there is nothing in its AI schedule.The airraft may be a Saab 340 (in FS AI) which is one of their aircraft flown real-world at least a couple of years ago. It was written up in Computer Pilot in a two part article on airline operations around Feb 02 or Feb 03. It got me started on wanting a model of one to fly which I found. It is used here in Minneapolis by Northwest Airlink (Mesaba) at least for a little while longer.If not listed in the ICAO tables with a radio call sign it probably didn't make it to the .wav recording schedule.You can request for future recordings but the "Regional E" if that is all returned by FSUIPC conflict will have to be resolved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey JD:Although the post times are different it seems we were both responding at the same time. :)Anyway, our answers were similar, didn't mean to step on your reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See my reply further down.Where'd that AI come from, Bruce. I do not have an S340 with that paint nor does it appear in my Ultimate Traffic as Australian Regional. I'd like to add it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I appreciate the difficulties but unfortunately this one is too glaring to ignore if you fly in OZ. I'm not sure what the ATC call sign is for Regional Express, probably Regional but it may be Regional Express or just Rex. Editing the c4.csv file seems the best option.Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said in the other post this problem is too glaring to ignore if you fly in OZ. Regional Express or REX as it is more commonly known here is the largest regional carrier in Australia and has a lot of traffic across all of SE Australia so its call sign or the one RC incorrectly gives it comes up very frequently. Something to be dealt with one way or another. If it can't be easily fixed then I will not use AI chatter when I fly in OZ because hearing Regional Europe all the time gets to you after a while. Sorry.Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No wait, don't panic and turn off AI chatter ;o) The RC team is here help with problems just as this :()Firstly, REX until early '04 was using regos as their callsign. That was also around the time we were planning which callsign wavs are to be recorded etc in RC. Since then, they are now using "REX" as their callsign.In RC, the closest thing we could find without recording a new wav was to use the callsign of a freight company in USA, called Ram Air Freight, "RAM EXPRESS". So RC has been set to use that callsign.If you prefer the REX planes to use RAM EXPRESS instead of REGIONAL EUROPE, go to the S340's aircraft.cfg file and find the REX entry. The atc_airline= line in your file saysatc_airline=Regional Europe (or similar)change that line toatc_airline=REXNow in FS, those REX S340s will be called RAM EXPRESS (which is better than REGIONAL EUROPE) :()At sometime in the future, when we record a dedicated "REX" wav, your AI will start to be called REX automatically.Hope this helps, and hopfully hearing RAM EXPRESS from now on will be more easy on your ears :())Subs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a cure but a comment:I got confused because the ICAO/IATA database I searched actually returned two registered similar Australian airlines:For ICAO it shows RXA, Regional Express 2, Australia Wide Airlines Ltd. d/b/a Regional Express 2.For IATA it shows ZL, Prefix code 899, REX Regional Express, Regional Express Pty LimitedAre these two seperate airlines or just different registered versions over time.As noted in the other post it is difficult to keep up with rapid changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Australia wide airlines is Regional Express (REX). REX has been around for about four years now and seems to be making a go of it in the regional airline business after Hazleton and Kendell folded. REX flies into my home airport of Merimbula (YMER)on the NSW south coast so I kinda have a soft spot for them and hope they can keep this service up as it means we are only an hour flying time away from Sydney and Melbourne in an emergency. Oh by the way I notice that Ansett is still in the c4.csv file - very regretfully that great australian airline went bust about five years ago.Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most Australian airlines were using regos until relatively recently. I have a set of live Australian ATC wav files that are about seven years old and regos are certainly used on them. Thanks for the suggestion re RAM Express I will give it a try.Bruceb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this