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FSB build and RC4

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Hi I need some further explanation on this problem wich i haven't solved http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=18965&page=I normally create the FP in FSB and import in RC4 and the FMC levelDBut when I pass the waypoint in RC4.2 it dosen't go to the next WPT and of course rc4 ask to to go back and pass the WPT.Now I know that I can instruct the RC4 to bypass the WPT and also I know that I can set in the preference a big Heading Deviation but i just wondering if other user get the same problem with FSB I mean if the flight plan is offset from the fs9 database here two example look below:Another question to the support is when the RC4 load the .pln it read's the lat-lon coordinate or the WPT name because maybe this explain the problem.Thank youFabrizioFSB[flightplan]title=LFML to LSGGdescription=LFML, LSGGtype=IFRroutetype=3cruising_altitude=11000departure_id=LFML, N43* 26.07', E005* 12.49',+000069.00departure_position=32Rdestination_id=LSGG, N46* 14.12', E006* 06.42',+001411.00departure_name=MARSIELLE_PROVENCEdestination_name=GENEVA_COINTRINwaypoint.0=LFML, A, N43* 26.07', E005* 12.49', +000000.00,waypoint.1=AVN, V, N43* 59.43', E004* 44.47', +23000.00,waypoint.2=MTL, V, N44* 33.17', E004* 46.47', +33000.00,waypoint.3=ROMAM, I, N45* 06.09', E005* 09.48', +26000.00,waypoint.4=LTP, V, N45* 29.20', E005* 26.20', +18000.00,waypoint.5=BELUS, I, N45* 40.31', E005* 35.38', +17000.00,waypoint.6=PAS, V, N46* 09.49', E005* 59.59', +05000.00,waypoint.7=LSGG, A, N46* 14.12', E006* 06.42', +01411.00,FS9[flightplan]title=LFML to LSGGdescription=LFML, LSGGtype=IFRroutetype=1cruising_altitude=11000departure_id=LFML, N43* 26.20', E5* 12.90', +000068.90departure_position=32Ldestination_id=LSGG, N46* 14.26', E6* 6.32', +001410.76departure_name=Marseille/Provencedestination_name=Genevawaypoint.0=LFML, A, N43* 26.20', E5* 12.90', +000068.90,waypoint.1=AVN, V, N43* 59.72', E4* 44.78', +000000.00,waypoint.2=MTL, V, N44* 33.30', E4* 46.79', +000000.00,waypoint.3=ROMAM, I, N45* 6.17', E5* 9.80', +000000.00,waypoint.4=LTP, I, N45* 29.34', E5* 26.34', +000000.00,waypoint.5=BELUS, I, N45* 40.52', E5* 35.63', +000000.00,waypoint.6=PAS, V, N46* 9.82', E6* 0.07', +000000.00,waypoint.7=LSGG, A, N46* 14.26', E6* 6.32', +001410.76,

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i thought there was an fmc bug, where it forgets the first checkpoint, or something like that. i don't know the specifics, but it sounds awfully familiarjd

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>i thought there was an fmc bug, where it forgets the first>checkpoint, or something like that. i don't know the>specifics, but it sounds awfully familiar>>jdI have got an answer from ErnieAlston but I wondering if everyone have this problem? http://www.fsbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=721I don't know what did you mean by (but it sounds awfully familiar) it's normal this for you and by the way rc4 read the lat-lon coordinate or the WPT name..Thank you

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i read the lat/long from the .plnjd

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Here another session where RC4 dosen't cross the MTL WPT to the next.To fly this way is quite boring If i have to bypass all wpt.I even set deviation of 50 Deg in general pref.radarrk8.jpg

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do not set the heading deviation to 50 degrees. that is irrelevant and making matters worse, probably.this is a short flight, i'll try to fly it tomorrow. or maybe i can get a beta tester to fly it, while i'm sleeping :-)jd

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The track recorded shows I believe you fell outside the horizontal limits which are tight at departure. I also note from the screen shot that your last command in your text box was to climb to FL 15 which is 1500 feet. However I did not check the transition level (first flight level after transition altitude) and a transition altitude of 1,000 is unusually low. There is also an ack prompt awaiting in the menu.It looks like you did not get credit for MTL. It was not a heading error. Your LNAV did not take you close enough to MTL.I may be repeating, but how did you load the plan into the aircraft.From the manual tutorial 4 page 179:---------------------------------------------------------------

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Are you using speed acceleration during the flight (especially when crossing waypoints) by any chance?I think what would be most useful is a screenshot exactly like the above, but a few miles earlier, as you pass MTL. If you can provide one of such, it'll be much easier to see what is going on. It allows us to be at the scene of the crime as it is happening.As Ron said, we will also need to know which plan you're importing when and where.Subs

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I do also have this problem, with the PMDG 737NG. I use FSBuild 2.2 to create FP's to both FS9/RC and PMDG FMC. Even if I'm at the right heading towards the WP, RC ask me to change heading, maybe with only 1-2 degrees.I haven't got any missed checkpoints yet, but RC still hustle about that I have to change my heading. It is very annoying that the controller tell me the same sentence every 5th second for XX miles, and when I reach the WP, he accept that, and starts yelling about my "wrong" heading to the next WP... And so does it continue until the approach...Isn't it anyway to fix it?

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If you are using FSB to generate all waypoints to the FMC and RC, then there should not be a difference. If you are getting a heading correction that does not want you to go back for a missed waypoint, try increasing your heading tolerance in the options table.If your waypoints are very close to your departure point and you are using LNAV for a significant departure turn, the LNAV will adjust turns for bank limitations cutting corners and anticipating turns on the inside limits of the course. What I do and seems to be done in the real world is until any initial severe turns are completed is use MCP heading control or yoke steering. I also do not use VNAV until the turn is complete but SPD and FLCH.The "rounding out" of the flight path by the FMC falls outside of RC's requirements.I frequently use the NOTAMS option for these tight departures which will stop the nagging of the controller.These close in departure waypoints tyuically have a label like DT110 and there intent is to establish an outside limitation "turn by".

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Ok I had another test Same route created with FSB and imported in 767LDS via FSB plugin .RTF and for RC4 .PLN :If you want to try copy those text and paste in notepad and save it.[flightplan]title=LFML to LSGGdescription=LFML, LSGGtype=IFRroutetype=3cruising_altitude=28000departure_id=LFML, N43* 26.07', E005* 12.49',+000069.00departure_position=32Rdestination_id=LSGG, N46* 14.12', E006* 06.42',+001411.00departure_name=MARSIELLE_PROVENCEdestination_name=GENEVA_COINTRINwaypoint.0=LFML, A, N43* 26.07', E005* 12.49', +000000.00, waypoint.1=AVN, V, N43* 59.43', E004* 44.47', +23000.00, waypoint.2=MTL, V, N44* 33.17', E004* 46.47', +33000.00, waypoint.3=ROMAM, I, N45* 06.09', E005* 09.48', +26000.00, waypoint.4=LTP, V, N45* 29.20', E005* 26.20', +18000.00, waypoint.5=BELUS, I, N45* 40.31', E005* 35.38', +16000.00, waypoint.6=LSGG, A, N46* 14.12', E006* 06.42', +01411.00, LFMLLGSS.RTF;Flight Plan Generated by Fsbuild 2.2 LFML-LSGGH,LFML,LSGG, ,W,AVN,,0,43.995400,4.746500,112.300000,0.000000,0,0,0,0W,MTL,,0,44.554800,4.779800,113.650000,0.000000,0,0,0,0W,ROMAM,,0,45.102600,5.163400,0.000000,0.000000,0,0,0,0W,LTP,,0,45.489000,5.439000,115.550000,0.000000,0,0,0,0W,BELUS,,0,45.675400,5.594000,0.000000,0.000000,0,0,0,0End of FlightPlanI get some delay sometime before receive confirmation with ATC ,and also I like to change freqency my self and stay in taining for Vatsim.The first VOR AVN as you can see, passed right over but before got the ding sound took some second and shows 0 NM->1 NM->2 NM When I reach VOR MTL I passed right over and got 0 NM but this time I diden't get credit and the NM get infinite.Sorry Ronzie But I don't really understand your suggestion I get more confiusion and I think i am not shure the problem it resides on the way all this software translate lat end Long some by decimal and other by minute.But way is only me to get this trouble this is a mistery, and as you can understand i don't ejoy that much if it dosen't work.here some screenshot:http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9813/firstnz7.jpghttp://img372.imageshack.us/img372/969/midma7.jpghttp://img350.imageshack.us/img350/5517/lastea6.jpgHope to see a solution.Thank's

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Ron, my heading tolerance is increased to max, but the problem is still there. It seems that if the WP is at 204.5 degrees (heading indicator constantly switch between 204 and 205) , RC wants you to fly at 205 degrees. But it's strange that the increased heading tolerance didn't solve the problem...

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heading tolerance has nothing to do with what you're doing.jd

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>heading tolerance has nothing to do with what you're doing.>>jdSo then whats the deal with heading tolerance...?

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Well, it stands there that you will not be busted if your not flying exactly at your assigned altitude/speed/heading.But guess what? I do get "busted"... My FMC flightplan heading is approx. 204.5 degrees. RC wants me to fly at 205 degrees..I sure got a strict controller...

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Hi Fabrizio,I have just flown this using LDS & RC4. Firstly, let me assure you there is nothing wrong with either product. I can attest to this because I am on both beta teams.As pointed out by Ron, the problem appears to lay with either the navigational data exported by FSB or your FS9 data.I made this short video to show you what you should be seeing. The clicks are me opening map windows which of course are not recorded by Fraps :)http://www.dmcity.com/downloads/LDS_MLT.wmv

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Thank you very much for this video but have you flown my flight plan, I can see it works perfect like I would in my sistem :-( .For your suggestion it's seems that I have to reinstall all what a bad news :-vuur .Just to know tell me if FSB flight plan overlap perfecly on FS9 map because Ernie write me this on his forum and I really get confused.In any case another future for RC4 instead of angle deviation should be WPT crossing like if it was a VOR circle where you can change the value because there is also WPT wich they are: fly by and other fly over.Anyway thank's FabrizioThe minutes differ because Fsbuild is using Degs/Mins/Secs, and FS9 is using fractional minutes.There will be a small difference, but it will be less than 1/5 mile in most cases.Its something that is on the to-do list for the 2.3 update.But even with the conversion to fractional minutes, because seconds is less precise (1/60) than fractional minutes (1/100) there will always be some difference in what Fsbuild exports and what is in FS9's database has minutes wise.

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Your longitudinal track looks good this time.This is probably not relevant and I'm not a LDS 767 user but do fly a PMDG 737NG. If that altimeter in the upper right in all three screenies just behind you flight recorded map is active, please note your altimeter pressure needs to be set at 1017mb/29.92in above the transition altitude for LFML as expressed in the controller page. Your altimeter shows 1007mn at 13,000 and 23,000 - can't see your screenie right now.You should be getting a voice reminder (unless it was removed in 4.2) saying altimeter check as you climb at or above or descend below transition altitude. This is just something else you need to look at in general. In descent if you had a crossing restriction and your altimeter was not set correctly you might get delay vectors until you cross the indicated waypoint at the correct altitude.From the airport info I have:ALTIMETER SETTINGThe transition altitude in PROVENCE TMA is 5,000ft.The transition level in PROVENCE TMA will be calculated by PROVENCEAPP.Your controller page will show these.

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I'm using FSB 2.22. If you have updated your AIRAC files from mavdat.at be aware that the first release of 0608 was incorrect and there is now a second version.I am not having this problem you describe using FSB 2.22 (update link is on their support forum) and PMDG 737NG 600 thru 900 (800/900 fixes some panel bugs in 600/700).I do notice that homing VORs while following the RNAV (LNAV without MCP VOR/LOC active) track does deviate a small amount showing a discrepancy. However this should not matter for RNAV tracking as long as the same coordinates are exported by FSB to your .rte FMC format and .pln FS9 format. RC uses trig to calculate your advised heading among waypoint coordinates.If I bring up the FMC LEGS page the mag heading to that first waypoint matches within one degree of the heading advised in the RC window until I'm really close to the waypoint but still well within tolerance and RC should accept that deviation (default is 15 degrees aircraft heading, not course).One other thing to check which may affect certain items as I recall is in your realism settings to insure everything is set for mag heading, not true course for instruments. I've never used true but I wonder if this is affecting your aircraft heading reporting to RC. In some areas mag deviation can be very large. This is just an idea, not a solution, since I have not tested it.Another thing to check is if you are off your RNAV planned course and RC gives you a heading correction from your present position in LEGS page 1 of the FMC LLSK the first waypoint twice and then EXE to provide a direct to course from PPOS. RC goes by your aircraft heading, not track, and turning to return to your planned track as shown on the ND is not correct if this is not done. RC in its heading correction has established a new path to the next waypoint from your PPOS.These are just things to look over and consider.I'll attempt both flights in this thread in a couple of days with FSUIPC 3.70. I am still on RC 4.01 but I'll try to update to 4.2 before this so I'll be on the same page with you.

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Fabrizio,Yes, I flew your flightplan from start to finish. If the difference is indeed only 1/5ml then it might be something you're doing wrong with LDS. What I can see from your screenshot is you're overspeeding. This certainly won't help in crossing and tracking waypoints accurately.What I would suggest is fly the route with just LDS. Concentrate on correct flight procedures. Set a cruise of FL190. When you are happy that the AC is behaving as it should then try it with RC4.Do you have FS Navigator? If so, try building the route with this then exporting that to FS2004 and using the .PLN this creates for RC4 use.

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Thank's for reply, I have flown already several time but this time I was concentrate to create the correct screenshot to publish in the forum that explain the big mistake on fly this bird. I do normally fly the LDS in vatsim and I am quite confident with it, for what is write here it's seems that I don't get credit for WPT, because I don't respect speed and vertical navigation, but I thought RC4 would more pay attention for lateral navigation to crossing WPT.I will try with other add-on like PMDG and feelthere to sse if it's the same.Thnk's for the support.Fabrizio

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progressing a checkpoint has nothing to do with speed or altitude. simply, you have to be less than 2 miles from the checkpoint on departure procedures, and less than 5 miles from the checkpoint enroute.jd

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When I brought up altude - altimeter setting I was just bringing up general technique not specific to waypoint progression at departure or enroute. It was just something I caught in the screenie that should require attention and be understood.The track on the map looks good, unlike the first trip that showed a parallel track to the intended course. The VOR was crossed within limits. I assume that is a capture of the track on the FS flight analysis map? I've never used it. Since the FS track at the VOR and the nav display at the VOR crossing agree, then it seems at the VOR all plan coordinates are in sync.I'll input the plan into 2.22 tomorrow and see what coordinates I get. I'll also check the AIRAC version.I do understand all RC needs to progress the waypoint is to cross the coordinates as stated in the FS plan for the waypoint whether or not correct.I'll fly at least the start of it after updating 4.01 to 4.2 so we are in the same environment.

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