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michal

beta shots - allow or not?

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..These are precisely the types of ill-informed threads that make me consider putting the beta team under a no-posting policy. RR.I admit I have little in common with folks who show fascination with wipers, virtual cabin, glare shields or in how many places wing flexes.On the other hand there are plenty of sharp eyes around here and as recent experience showed they can point out some hard to see inaccuraries in places where it matters - like for example this PFD idiosyncrasy.So getting some feedback may not be a bad idea. If you shut it down you may throw the baby out with the bath water. It cuts both ways. Honestly I don't know what is better for the project.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg

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There will always be impolite or rude comments made against beta shots or two year old products. I enjoy seeing the pictures and progress and would be disappointed to see them pulled. But, there are many things in my life that trump the drama of comments made concerning beta testing of an airplane simulation. :)Bob....

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Hi All,I personally like the beta pics but there should be a caviet. This being that they ARE beta shots which does not entitle all of the forum to be visual beta testers and point out what may already be known and on a list of fixes. Being a Beta tester myself, I know not to stick my nose into a development process that I'm not invited to be a part of and am just enjoying shots of what looks to be a great release.If the team has to be locked down due to impatient or uninformed posts about the beta pics, then so be it. The time taken to answer questions or observations on these pics would be better served in developing and testing the software.Just MHO.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpg

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Michael-We agree.... It is hardly uncommon for feedback we read here to lead us to notice items that may have gone under our attention span...There is a significant difference however between the poster who notices something and raises attention to it in a mature fasion, and the post who does so with editorial commentary designed to insult/inflame.Folks often wonder why PMDG rarely shows any progress reports for ALPHA products. The thread I'm referencing is precisely why. The posts in question raise points that might have been valid had they not been both incorrect and apparently targeted to inflame. Can you imagine having to put up with finite nit-picking on a project only 50% complete? It's akin to being critical of your house painter when he's only finished stripping the old coat of paint....Personally I truly enjoy the fact that PMDG and our forum operates with customer input. I think our products are better for it. The vast majority of folks are like-minded individuals interested in seeing us succeed with this product's value as a simulation of the 747-400.....There is an unhappy, selfish, beligerant minority, however- that really leaves us scratching our heads as to why we bother.....Happily, at least for now the "we's" outnumber the "they's."

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Please remember that the vast majority of replies when a beta tester posts are of praise and appreciation. Don't let one or two jerks get to ya.

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Robert you realy should look beyond such comments. Being a developer myself I know how frustrating it is when people (without "any valid reason") complaint about your software, since you have probably spent more time on that than you have seeing your family and freinds over the last couple of years (its not just software, its your "child"). But I fully agree the least people could do is to try to do their "complainting" in a mature fasion.Personlly I couldn't care less about how smooth the flexing is and whether or not I can see whipers, but try to look on the bright side if all complaints are about nonsens like that it must mean that you guys have succeede in the places where it matter.I love the images that the Beta Team is sharing and "listinging to their words" when the yeagerly describe how thing works brings a smile to my face (they LOVE the Queen and I am sure most of us will as well - whipers or not ). I'm sitting here with my (Bill Bulfer and ###### Gifford) FMC Manual, just go my "Unofficial Simulator and checkride procedures manual" today and my Laptop is loaded with the ITVV DVD so I for one is ready to enjoy the company of the Queen when she ships - keep up the good work and forget about the nonsens comments ;-)http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpgPelle F. S. Liljendal

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>and the post who does so with editorial commentary>designed to insult/inflame....>There is an unhappy, selfish, beligerant minority, Robert,You may be right in general however I don't see it in this paricular case of "wipers" or "glareshield". I re-read the thread in question twice and I don't see any beligerant or insulting behavior here. Flyn, Alex, Paul or Alaistar at the most could be accused of being 'blind' or having their priorities wrong. I admit I did not see it either but I never cared to look closer. I hope you don't have anything against these particular individuals.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg

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Hmmmm, it seems I may have caused a stir here in this fine forum, this was not my intention, and for which I appolgise. I was mearly asking for confirmation that the wipers are/were there as they were not visible to me. Anyway I hope we can move on from here, and hope to continue seeing the great shots provided by the beta team until the queen is released :D

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Alistair-Looks like you got caught in the crossfire. ;-)I whacked some posts that were added to the thread that were completely out of line. ;-)Sorry you got splattered with the paint while they were stripping the house. :-)RSR

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RR.Also remember that there are MANY MANY individuals who check this site daily with utmost anticipation of another look at the magnificent products PMDG produce and NEVER say anything at all. We look, enjoy, nod our head, smile and think, "WOW, PMDG is doing it again". And we buy every product you produce. I'd say you have a lot more WE'S than THEY'S - a lot more.

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>RR.>>Also remember that there are MANY MANY individuals who check>this site daily with utmost anticipation of another look at>the magnificent products PMDG produce and NEVER say anything>at all. We look, enjoy, nod our head, smile and think, "WOW,>PMDG is doing it again". And we buy every product you produce.>I'd say you have a lot more WE'S than THEY'S - a lot more. 100% agreement on this one. Could not have said it better myself. Cheers everyone and let peace and the Queen prevail.- Neeraj.

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And both pilots have a Full Windsor knot in their ties.Very nice.However, they look a bit hungry.Too much airline food?RegardsGoran

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>And both pilots have a Full Windsor knot in their ties.>Very nice.>However, they look a bit hungry.>Too much airline food?>Regards>Goran>Peeeeeeeanuttttttsssssssss --- Yummmmmmmmmmm :-)

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>And both pilots have a Full Windsor knot in their ties.>Very nice.>However, they look a bit hungry.>Too much airline food?>Regards>Goran>prolly homesick :9 :9 :9 :-xxrotflmao***TONY K.O***

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>..These are precisely the types of ill-informed threads>that make me consider putting the beta team under a no-posting>policy. RR.>>I admit I have little in common with folks who show>fascination with wipers, virtual cabin, glare shields or in>how many places wing flexes.>>On the other hand there are plenty of sharp eyes around here>and as recent experience showed they can point out some hard>to see inaccuraries in places where it matters - like>for example this PFD idiosyncrasy.>>So getting some feedback may not be a bad idea. If you shut it>down you may throw the baby out with the bath water. It cuts>both ways. Honestly I don't know what is better for the>project.>>Michael J.>WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB>Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2>http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg>http://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpgwell, i think a lot of people are judging the pics in terms of their personal preferences. that is ok as along as it is constructive critisim, however i dont think they are "flaming" the developers for minor shortfalls. these people will have to wait till the queen is released and check out those details themselves. i'm sure PMDG will have 99.99999% correct modelling of every aspect of the Queen.on a sidenote, perhaps the beta testers could lock the thread so no comments would be made?***TONY K.O***

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There you go Pete. That's all I was asking. If Randazzo wanted to lock the thread because we posted a Legit question, then so be it. He's been VERY Beligerant to me in the past, so he shouldn't comment about others. But this is not the place for that.That's all he had to do, I'm sure everyone can agree, you'd need a microscope to see those wipers in that shot.If he wants to make a big deal out of it, then so be it. PMDG makes great AC, but their people skills are less than admirable.

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Personally....I think anyone who raises a stink over WIPERS needs to go back and find themselves a copy of FS 4.0 and mess with that for a while. Heck, i'll go even newer and say FS 5.1 - i still have the MS-DOS, 3.5" floppy version of that in my basement. Go play with those for a while, then come back here and complain about wipers being too small.How quickly some can forget just how good we have it these days....

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>>Peeeeeeeanuttttttsssssssss --- Yummmmmmmmmmm >>Under the guise of realism and nit pickiness concerning>realism, we here in the PMDG forum refer to them by the proper>term "Pilot Pellets". :-lol>>George>>http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/betaimg.jpg**chuckles**THAT can sound wrong in a few ways . . . . I like it.

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I am normally a quiet and relaxed kinda guy...When someone starts a reply with "If Randazzo...", though, it gets on my nerves and ruins my calm, serene inner peace.Dear Mr. Heaney, next time you want to refer to someone you don't know by their last name that way, do NOT expect that you will be treated in a respectful manner in return.Consider this a fair warning. This is a civilized forum, and you should be the LAST person in here to discuss people skills, if I judge by that response of yours.

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Thank you Mr. Kalamaras, well said... It is a pleasure to visit this forum just because it is polite; as well as being informative and intersting. (just don't mention windscreen wipers though!) }(Regards,Gustav.

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The problem is that theres 2 real groups of FS fans. The looks group, and the realism group.The looks people have every display setting maxed out, refuse to fly to anywhere they don't have scenery for, and post screenshots on airliners.net all day. However, they probably fly with GPS direct routing, take off with near tail-strikes, overspeed and assume the only way to land is by hitting APP.The realism people spend an hour preparing the aircraft, going over checklists, checking systems religiously, flying the exact procedures, flying with real ATC, and get upset if their pilots shirt is still in the wash. However, they don't care for scenery (much), posting screenshots, nor whether they is an option for having ice in the drinks in the virtual cabin.Personally, I feel PMDG is aimed more at the realism nuts, but they do a fine fine job with the looks too.I do think some people have gone OTT with regards to stuff that is "wrong" recently, but the praise outweighs all that.*some portions of this post not to be taken seriously

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What makes these sims so nice is the detail in visuals and in realism. Im in both camps. I rarely fly into airports I dont have scenery for because well I just dont want to. However, I set up my aircraft with a checklist from the airline I fly with because that is fun for me.

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Neil,Not sure what about your post would not be to be taken seriously. It's all good stuff, and you are precisely correct on all of it.I for one am a realism nut, but I do admit I love looks too . . . to a point.Terrain and scenery I love for procedural purposes and to give me the feeling I am actually flying "someplace". Nothing like a full procedure approach to Sion, Switzerland in moderate weather with Switzerland Professional installed.Looks of the VC I love because I am a hardcore VC flyer, but I balance that evenly with the importance with the functionality of the cockpit **smiles** The "prettiness" doesnt matter at all if I can't function in it. It's like showing you a toy but you are stuck in a straight jacket and cant use it -- just look at it. So functionality is an absolute must for me. But that eye candy adds so much more to the feel.I could care less about a cabin, but on the other hand I DO use the cabins that are included. I just downloaded -- erm -- I forgot what the heck it's called -- Fraps or something liek that -- and registered it so I can get the most out of it, and for the sake of my friends that DON't fly or understand my love for flying, I am going to make some video clips to email them. Of course, we are talking about friends of mine that have the impression that flight sims are "a few guages and a picture of a horizon and you stare at nothing for hours".On a very long flight -- transoceanic to be more in example, I tend to liek to wonder a bit. If the AC I am using has just the VC, I'll pay attention to the flight, but on such a long flight I have a tendency to get up and do something like cook a quick meal, etc. during cruise.With things like a cabin I tend to stay at the computer and wonder around more "playing" with gadgets in the environment and getting screenshots to do aviation art with (I love to draw and have been using FS as an inspiration to do an aviation line of work).So . . . yes . . eye candy is awesome, but so is functionality.So I do believe that i would fit into a THIRD catagory of simmers . . . those of us who balance both aspects evenly. She's gotta make me feel like I am in the real thing, but she also has to FLY and function like I am in the real thing as well . . . okay . . . as close to thwe real thing as FS can get you anyway.It is just such balances that has won my heart for PMDG's B737NG, then the 1900D, then the 800/900, then the 1900C. Other add-ons such as the LDS 767 and Flight1 ATR have me in the same pool of respect and admiration. PSS, Carenado, Dreamfleet, Eaglesoft, Digital Aviation, Feelthere, Perfect Flight and FSD have also kept me busy for hundreds of hours for the same reason :-)

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