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cowpatz

747 Pax feedback

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Hi Guys,Just a bit of feedback for the PMDG team to consider.Firstly the accuracy of the simulation is truly amazing and a joy to use (much to my partners annoyance).During the course a few flights I have come accross a few anomolies and I list them here for your consideration/checking.1. When the APU generators are selected on with the ENG generators already on line (ie. approaching the gate and putting the APU online prior to shutdown) there should be 4 messages on EICAS saying GEN 1 thru to 4 OFF.2. With HYD systems 1 and 4 inoperative the trailing edge flaps work via the secondary mode (electrics). There should be a FLAPS PRIMARY Eicas msg when the flaps are selected. They should also operate quite a bit slower than they do on the simulation but hey not too bad. 3. When entering an approach and checking it thru in the PLAN mode prior to executing it, there is no STEP prompt on the LEGS page until after executing it. It should be there any time PLAN is selected on the ND and the FMC on LEGS. After all this is the main function of the PLAN mode.....to check prior to execution.4. When doing an intercept course to a way point LNAV does not arm. ie. If I use heading select to position the aircraft on an intercept hdg to intercept a created track to a waypoint and then select LNAV it should stay in the HDG mode with LNAV armed (white on the PFD under HDG SEL). When it approaches the capture zone it should change to LNAV green and capture the course. Instead when selecting LNAV it just does a direct to the waypoint.These are only minor points but you may like to consider them if you are planning an update and it is not a major.Many thanksSteve Hall

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"1. When the APU generators are selected on with the ENG generators already on line (ie. approaching the gate and putting the APU online prior to shutdown) there should be 4 messages on EICAS saying GEN 1 thru to 4 OFF."This seems to agree with my manuals, Steve, but I'm a little surprised that it should work this way. If you carry out a normal function like switching to APU power before engine shutdown, why should this generate a Caution message (and presumably an associated aural)?"2. With HYD systems 1 and 4 inoperative the trailing edge flaps work via the secondary mode (electrics). There should be a FLAPS PRIMARY Eicas msg when the flaps are selected. They should also operate quite a bit slower than they do on the simulation but hey not too bad."Correct. You should also get an expanded flap display. This area has always proved troublesome for sim programmers. It may have been put in the "too hard basket" or the "to do later basket" ;)Also, in your scenario, I notice that the HYD PRESS DEM x messages are not inhibited (These should be inhibited by the HYD PRESS SYS x messages)Recovery of primary flaps by switching the hydraulics back on can cause flap lockup problems (I've seen this in other 744 sims also). "3. When entering an approach and checking it thru in the PLAN mode prior to executing it, there is no STEP prompt on the LEGS page until after executing it. It should be there any time PLAN is selected on the ND and the FMC on LEGS. After all this is the main function of the PLAN mode.....to check prior to execution."This was something which was mentioned during beta testing, but wasn't able to be confirmed and implemented in the time available ;)Thanks for the feedback.Cheers.Q>

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There is no aural warning when the APU is put online just the messages, in fact the message should be ELEC GEN 1 thru 4 OFF. I guess electrical generation, being a major system, requires an associated caution when a significant element of it is rendered inoperative or reconfigured.As for the flap display you are correct in that there should be an expanded flap display (any time the sys is in secondary mode). This should not be too difficult as it is displayed when using the alternate flap system (via the switches).I have also noted that when doing an intercept course to a waypoint and then selecting LNAV, to arm it, LNAV just does a direct to instead. It should remain armed and in HDG HOLD or HDG SEL until within the capture zone. I have not checked this out thoroughly yet but has been an issue on the few occassions I have attempted to use it.All these points are not majors. They would just be nice to clear up if it is at all possible in the interests of an accurate reproduction, which, by and large is superb.I understand that some issues that QOTS's has have been addressed in the 747F package. I hope these can be jigged to fix the pax issues.RgdsSteve

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"This should not be too difficult as it is displayed when using the alternate flap system (via the switches)."Actually, this a common misconception. The two displays are quite different. Different graphics, different logic.I'm not sure what's happening at PMDG HQ with regards to your LNAV problem, but I'm sure they are aware of it ;)Cheers.Q>

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>armed (white on the PFD under HDG SEL). When it approaches the>capture zone it should change to LNAV green and capture the>course. Instead when selecting LNAV it just does a direct to>the waypoint.It would be nice to have it working properly. LNAV is such a basic feature.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gifhttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

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I don't think I'd go as far as saying it's not working properly.The LNAV issue does warrant analysis by PMDG but I'd be loathe to see it misreprepresented as a major bug.EDIT for spelling and to correct a misunderstanding on my part.

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It works properly in the 737 series - no reason for it not to in the 747, which is an equally fine effort. I don't think it is a major bug and I don't think it is represented as such.DJ

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Actually I have to eat humble pie as it seemed to work OK when I gave it a better workout today. It seems to work wellif the intercept course track is a reasonable distance away from the aircraft. I will have to muck around a bit more to see just how far.Steve

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Interesting - re-reading the manual, it seems clear that the key vector is the course to the waypoint. Easy enough for a VOR radial, but I'm not sure how you get it with any given pair of waypoints...DJ

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I haven't had any truoble intecepting a course to a fix. I usually do this to intecept the inbound coure for a non precison approach. As far as the flaps moving slower in alternate mode I vaguely recall them saying it was too difficult to model so they appear to move normally. The only real frutration I am having is that I keep hearing that some of the problems with the PAX palne are fixed if you get the freighter version but I have not heard if there will be a PAX only patch to fix those same problems.

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The flaps primary message and displays were something I`ve mentioned during testing but,I believe the guys were frustrated by FS and were unable to reproduce to slower flaps speeds when powered by electics.Actualy, bringing the APU generators online should also produce a aural caution when the engine generators drop off.CheersJon

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The flap speeds are slower in secondary mode but still a little too fast particulary for the initial flap settings F1 to F10.There is no aural warning when the APU is placed online with the ENG GENS dropped offline....just the EICAS messages....at least in the real world.CheersSteve

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"There is no aural warning when the APU is placed online with the ENG GENS dropped offline....just the EICAS messages....at least in the real world."LOL... This is the sort of stuff beta testers come across all the time. Two real world experts disagreeing over what happens in real life.Both can be right. It may all depend on what options their airline has selected.Until you get involved in beta testing, you don't realize just how many options there are... and how frustrating it can be for the programmers who have to decide what goes into the sim.On the other hand, people see/hear things that are not really there. In only the last few weeks, I've seen a 744 crew swear blind that they should see PRESS lights in their Override Jettison Pump switches when when not selected on... I've had to help a 777 pilot insert a lat/long waypoint into his FMC because he forgot he was in a different hemisphere to the one he normally flew in....and I overheard a story about a 744 freighter crew who couldn't start their engines because they couldn't see that their Eng Bleed switches were switched off (in this particular case, when told to cycle their bleed switches by an engineer, they cycled them from OFF to ON to OFF).If you think this would never happen in your RW airline... think again ;)Human nature.Regards.Q>

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Qahh so true,its like someone asking you to describe the dash on your car. you see it all the time but unless you are there looking at it its hard to get 100%. I`ll have a listen for beeps and a look for messages on the way home.We don`t bring the APU generators on line until we are on stand with the brake set,and as soon as they are we chop the fuel control switches which then produces a cascade of messages and beeps,so may be associating it with that.Its all too complicated,which is why I stick to flying the realair spitfire!regardsJon

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QI agree with you 100% and I am well aware of the various options avialable to airlines when ordering aircraft. I guess the secret is in knowing when an issue with the sim is because of an option or whether it has not been modelled correctly. The use of a forum such as this is an excellent venue for airing such things and hopefully increasing ones knowledge in the meantime. Some of the questions posed on this forum really get you scratching your head and I am well aware of the points you raised in your message.We do not have a policy as such, as to when the APU is placed on line, as long as it is done before shutdown.....which sometimes doesn't happen :) CheersSteve

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Steve,Yep, our`s definitely lets out a beep when you bring the APU generators online,double checked this morning.I can relate to your last comment! Only done it once,but i remember every single whistle and bell going off including the stick shaker!regardsJon

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Capt./ Jon b,when you bring apu online, and before running down the engines, do you shut down hydraulics first and/or turn off gen cont switches? or is it just: apu online at stand, then run down engines?thanks,tomx

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Isn't it funny how you do something all the time and when it comes to being asked a basis question your not sure. I am doing a short flight tomorrow so I will see what our beasts do.One thing that has always baffeled me is that when we get on the gate, and after the park brake is set, we turn off the HYD demand pumps and then shut down. I have no idea why this can't be done after shutdown...do you? Is it a hang up from earlier days?Tom our airline procedure is to put the APU on line sometime before eng shutdown (you do not need to do anything with the eng generators), stop, park the brake, turn off hyd demand pumps, shut down the engines, then fuel pumps, aft cargo heat, anti col light, seat belt sign, purchase duty free, drive home, consume duty free :)CheersSteve

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I checked out the issue regarding putting the APU online and dropping off the ENG GENS and all I got was the EICAS msgs no aural. I guess this varies between operators.Steve

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