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markadeane

Need help: Most fuel-efficient operation of the 744.

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Hi Guys,I posted yesterday to glean some info regarding the endurance of the 747-400.Well I now have settled upon a route of flight, namely EGLL-YSSY.Now before you stop me, I know this is pushing it, but I've decided to see if I can replicate the Longreach delivery flight, I am quite prepared for (and indeed expecting) to not quite make it. What I'm trying to do is determine just how far this bird will fly while following THE MOST EFFICIENT operating practices.This is where I need your help. Sam, Qavion, anyone else who has a good knowledge of long-haul flying and the workings of the 747, please step up to the podium!Here are the questions I have so far.INITIAL CLIMBOUT: What is the most fuel-efficient climb technique? CLB, CLB 1 or CLB 2? With or without the 250 knot speed restriction?CLIMB: Are the default speeds for the climb the most efficient ones? Or is there a more efficient climb speed to aim for?CRUISE: Is the LRC mode in the FMC really the best max range speed? Or is this only a rough guide?STEP CLIMB: Is ICAO profile the best way to do steps, or is stepping in increments of 2,000 feet better? When stepping, what is the most efficient way to do this without increasing the fuel burn too dramatically? Using VNAV or VS with a really low rate of climb selected?OTHER: Any other hints that will make the difference?My routing is pretty much bang on a Great Circle route, so there's not much I can do to tighten up there. Taking a zero cargo load and 6 pax representing the duty crew and a representative passenger or two to represent the baggage carried!Look forward to hearing from you guys on this (ludicrous) plan!

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Couple of points that may help you, the following is from the FMC manual:1.Cost index is calculated as the aircraftoperating cost divided by fuel cost. [($/houraircraft operating cost) / (Fuel Cost inCents/Pound)] A cost index of 00 will resultin the maximum cost economy, with slowclimb rates, maximum range cruise and slowdescent speeds predicted by the FMC inorder to minimize fuel burn. A high costindex will result in higher climb, cruise anddescent speeds. The cost index is designedto provide a relative index of the cost ofaircraft operation vs. time en-route.2.STEP SIZE: The planned altitude step sizeis displayed in line 5R. The FMC will defaultto a standard ICAO step size of 2000 feet.This will result in proper cruise altitudeclearance being maintained (e.g. odd flightlevels while east bound, even flight levelswhile west bound.)The crew may override the STEP SIZE byentering any value as a four digit multiple of1000 from 0 to 9000. Entering a 0 value willresult in no step climbs being made. If nosteps are planned, it is important that 0 beentered in this field in order to accuratelypredict fuel consumption.The next really important issue is the weather RE: headwinds V tailwind component. I can can highly recommend FS flight keeper mainly for the ACARS that comes with the program, the ACARS allows you to download the weather (winds aloft being of most interest) while you are flying among a long list of other flight parameters. Finally download a flight plan that is relevent to the weather for the day that you fly, just as is done in real life. Best of luck with this flight, I for one would be interested in how it goes :)CheersPete :)

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>STEP CLIMB: Is ICAO profile the best way to do steps, or is>stepping in increments of 2,000 feet better?Your best bet here would be to climb each time the optimum cruise level goes up 100 feet. As well as starting at your optimum cruise level. Keep in mind, you can't enter the step of 100 feet, but will have to watch it and go up each time it changes.Yes, it will be hard to do, but that will give you the best chance of reaching Sydney. (At least the way I understand it it would.)Good luck. Don't forget to update us when you are making the flight. :)

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Mike's idea of using the smallest step size you can in climbing may be a good idea. I am not sure if they did this in real life or not.

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Mark, your best bet is max climb thrust and climb at max rate (approx cost index 0) and cruise descend at cost index 0. Even a flap 10 takeoff if possible will assist. I am not sure what you are using for wind info but this may be critical. Failing that keep to optimum altitude wherever possible. It will change at about 8 min per 100 ft. This is going to be difficult to accieve over the duration of the flight. I suggest 500 ft step climbs which will give you about 40 min per climb. Of course you are going to need to set an alarm during the night time!!! If it gets really tight later on shut and eng down!!!CheersSteve

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>A cost index of 00 will result>in the maximum cost economy>Finally download a flight plan that is relevent to the weather>for the day that you fly, just as is done in real life.Two most important tips are above.Great Circle flying is usually NOT the most optimum route when flying in the presence of real-life winds.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gifhttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

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I'll be intersted to see how this operation is going to go should you go through with it!CheersRudy

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I'll definitely be doing it. :-)Though I should point out the route itself is more of a context to the exercise than the objective of the exercise itself, I'm actually carrying out the flight to determine whether a planning application I am currently programming is accurate.I doubt I will make it, as Steve points out, winds are very relevant and this will likely make the difference between Sydney and - say - Manila!Not sure when I'll do this but most likely will be this weekend.

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> If it gets really tight later on shut and eng down!!!Really?! Bet Boeing doesn't have that in the QRH.That's quite funny. Last thing I'd have thought of doing.

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>>I am not sure if they did this>>in real life or not.>>Not in real life.Funny you say that, because I got that info from a BA captain.

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hope this will give a good idea about flying ...i tested the computer with real datas and what i found is that don thave the weather for today ops but this is what i found in my archives hope this help ...see youFLT PLAN: EGLL/YSSY MACH:M85 A/C: /B744 ETD: 28/19.00ZORG EGLL DEST YSSY FUEL TIME CORR TOGWT LDGWT AVG W/CDEST YSSY 353686 17.57 ------ 755241 401638 P039RESV 007753 00.30 ------ALTN 008766 00.28 ------ ALTN YSCB DIST 0133 W/C M006HOLD 008982 00.30 ------REQD 379187 19.25 ------ BOW 370500 PAYLOAD 000000EXTRA 005637 00.22 ------TAXI 000083TTL AT BO 384824 19.52 ------ RTE MAN DIST 9371EGLL DVR6K DVR UG1 KONAN UL607 SPI UZ714 BOMBI UL984 NM UB493 REPLI UM991 VILUR B494 URML B119 BUMAR UB119 NAMAS B143 KRS A240 AFGAN UV838 ROSIE V838 ZB G202N BI DCT MURLI DCT TIGER B209 KKJ UM501 JH W49 BBS UM501 PUT B579 VPL W531 VIH R325 VJR G579 SJ A576 KAT W368 RIC YSSYEGLL/0350/KOROP/0370/VILUR/0364/BUMAR/0370/METKA/0364/RANAH/0370/VIH/0410CHKPNT LAT LONG TEMP TROP LEG ELAP------ -------- --------- ---- ---- DIST DIST FUEL MAG SR ---- ----- USED FLOW FREQ FL WIND CRS HDG AIRWAY TAS GS TIME TIME REMN /ENGS------ --- ----- --- --- ------ --- --- ---- ----- ------ -----EGLL N51 28.7 W000 27.7 9371 000083. . . 384741DET N51 18.2 E000 35.8 CLB CLB 03 041 0041 008794117.30 CLB 25050 108 114 DCT 328 369 0.08 00.08 376030 62490DVR N51 09.8 E001 21.6 CLB CLB 00 030 0071 011401114.95 CLB 24077 109 117 DCT 453 504 0.04 00.12 373423 44695KONAN N51 07.9 E002 00.0 CLB CLB 00 024 0095 013391 CLB 24077 097 103 UG1 489 550 0.02 00.14 371433 45774KOK N51 05.7 E002 39.1 CLB CLB 02 025 0120 014853114.50 CLB 25075 097 102 UL607 495 560 0.03 00.17 369971 33198TOC CLB CLB 04 036 0156 016969 CLB 25066 108 113 UL607 489 546 0.04 00.21 367855 31662REMBA N50 39.7 E004 54.8 M51 33 04 053 0209 019467 350 26059 108 112 UL607 494 544 0.06 00.27 365357 25452SPI N50 30.9 E005 37.4 M53 33 03 029 0238 020810113.10 350 26049 109 111 UL607 492 537 0.03 00.30 364014 25347BOMBI N50 03.4 E008 48.0 M53 34 02 124 0362 026693 350 26051 103 105 UZ714 491 537 0.14 00.44 358131 25311OKG N50 03.9 E012 24.3 M54 34 00 139 0501 033358115.70 350 27035 089 089 UL984 490 526 0.16 01.00 351466 25247RAK N50 05.8 E013 41.4 M54 34 00 050 0551 035728386 350 26034 086 087 UL984 490 524 0.06 01.06 349096 25089OKL N50 05.8 E014 15.8 M54 34 00 022 0573 036752112.60 350 26035 088 089 UL984 490 524 0.02 01.08 348072 24338PADKA N49 56.0 E018 17.0 M55 34 01 155 0728 043966 350 26035 090 091 UL984 488 522 0.18 01.26 340858 24253DIBED N49 53.3 E023 03.5 M57 34 02 185 0913 052504 350 26035 087 088 UL984 487 523 0.21 01.47 332320 24187NALAD N49 23.3 E026 27.1 M57 34 01 135 1048 058732 350 27028 098 099 UL984 487 515 0.16 02.03 326092 23706KOROP N49 09.0 E027 50.7 M56 34 00 056 1104 061319 350 26023 100 101 UL984 488 510 0.07 02.10 323505 23371NM N48 58.0 E028 51.0 M56 34 00 041 1145 0635981060 370 24022 101 103 UL984 488 504 0.04 02.14 321226 28013REPLI N48 07.1 E032 53.3 M57 35 02 169 1314 071709 370 24027 103 105 UB493 487 504 0.21 02.35 313115 24286RASPU N47 14.8 E035 47.4 M58 36 03 128 1442 077751 370 25027 108 110 UM991 485 505 0.15 02.50 307073 23780VILUR N46 39.5 E037 25.3 M58 36 03 076 1518 081177 370 28028 112 113 UM991 485 512 0.09 02.59 303647 23198UH N45 50.0 E040 05.0 M56 36 03 121 1639 086452528 364 30037 108 108 B494 487 524 0.13 03.12 298372 22827URMT N45 06.5 E042 06.8 M55 35 03 095 1734 090588 364 31043 111 110 B494 489 531 0.11 03.23 294236 22921ALERS N44 43.5 E043 00.0 M54 35 03 045 1779 092483 364 31045 115 115 B494 490 535 0.05 03.28 292341 22969BALKO N44 30.7 E043 30.5 M53 35 03 025 1804 093567 364 30044 115 114 B494 491 535 0.03 03.31 291257 23015ORMUT N44 21.0 E043 49.0 M53 36 01 016 1820 094272 364 30045 120 121 B494 491 535 0.02 03.33 290552 23013SOPAH N44 05.0 E044 16.0 M54 36 00 025 1845 095357 364 29044 124 126 B494 490 531 0.03 03.36 289467 22943RONKA N44 00.0 E045 13.0 M54 36 00 041 1886 097065 364 29046 091 090 B494 491 536 0.04 03.40 287759 22178BELAN N43 55.2 E045 55.3 M52 36 00 031 1917 098329 364 28050 093 093 B494 492 542 0.04 03.44 286495 22224KZ N43 50.0 E046 43.0 M51 36 00 035 1952 099747455 364 28053 093 092 B494 493 546 0.04 03.48 285077 22265URML N42 48.9 E047 39.2 M52 36 00 074 2026 102858 364 27057 140 146 B494 492 525 0.08 03.56 281966 22222AGATO N42 16.0 E048 32.4 M53 36 01 051 2077 104981 364 27062 124 129 B119 492 536 0.06 04.02 279843 22223BUMAR N42 01.7 E048 55.3 M52 36 01 022 2099 105901 364 27064 124 130 B119 492 536 0.02 04.04 278923 22220OMAKI N41 48.7 E049 16.2 M53 36 01 020 2119 106894 370 26067 124 130 UB119 492 535 0.03 04.07 277930 26245NAMAS N41 20.0 E050 00.0 M53 36 01 044 2163 108734 370 26074 126 133 UB119 492 535 0.04 04.11 276090 22602ASLAN N41 05.1 E050 36.5 M52 36 02 031 2194 110017 370 26077 113 120 B143 492 550 0.04 04.15 274807 22605MAMEX N40 54.6 E051 02.6 M52 36 01 022 2216 110931 370 26078 113 119 B143 492 552 0.02 04.17 273893 22600METKA N40 43.5 E051 30.0 M52 36 01 024 2240 111892 370 26080 113 120 B143 492 554 0.03 04.20 272932 22598KRS N40 05.1 E053 00.1 M52 37 02 079 2319 115017112.30 364 26092 114 122 B143 493 560 0.08 04.28 269807 22267AGMAL N39 48.0 E054 09.0 M53 37 03 055 2374 117076 364 26105 103 110 A240 492 583 0.06 04.34 267748 21607KESEK N39 17.0 E055 34.0 M54 37 03 073 2447 119757 364 26109 110 119 A240 491 580 0.07 04.41 265067 21458RJ N39 00.0 E056 18.0 M55 37 02 038 2485 121158445 364 27111 112 120 A240 489 582 0.04 04.45 263666 21367MAMED N38 34.8 E057 42.0 M55 37 02 070 2555 123697 364 27111 107 113 A240 489 590 0.07 04.52 261127 21368AFGAN N38 24.0 E058 17.0 M55 39 02 029 2584 124758 364 27111 108 113 A240 489 593 0.03 04.55 260066 21368KEMOR N37 53.8 E059 12.9 M54 39 02 054 2638 126716 364 28110 120 128 UV838 490 583 0.06 05.01 258108 21414MARAD N36 37.5 E061 27.8 M54 39 01 131 2769 131499 364 28110 121 128 UV838 490 590 0.13 05.14 253325 21412RANAH N35 35.0 E063 12.0 M54 40 01 105 2874 135274 364 29110 123 128 UV838 490 595 0.11 05.25 249550 21414VELDT N34 30.0 E064 54.0 M56 40 01 106 2980 139081 370 30113 125 128 UV838 488 598 0.11 05.36 245743 21520HORST N33 27.6 E066 27.5 M54 55 01 100 3080 142545 370 30111 126 129 UV838 490 599 0.10 05.46 242279 20854MAXIN N32 46.2 E067 27.4 M53 56 01 065 3145 144836 370 30104 128 130 UV838 492 594 0.06 05.52 239988 20940ROSIE N31 40.0 E069 00.0 M52 56 00 102 3247 148520 370 30093 128 131 UV838 492 583 0.11 06.03 236304 20939ZB N31 21.3 E069 27.6 M53 50 00 030 3277 149605115.70 370 30089 126 129 V838 492 580 0.03 06.06 235219 20942BI N29 40.8 E071 01.9 M53 52 01 129 3406 154301113.30 370 30089 140 144 G202N 491 575 0.13 06.19 230523 20896MURLI N29 17.7 E071 25.4 M54 54 02 031 3437 155420 370 30087 137 141 DCT 490 573 0.03 06.22 229404 20795TIGER N28 28.8 E072 14.9 M54 54 02 066 3503 157730 370 30085 137 141 DCT 490 571 0.07 06.29 227094 20182JJP N26 49.5 E075 48.1 M54 54 03 213 3716 165198112.90 370 30087 117 116 B209 490 577 0.23 06.52 219626 20183INTIL N26 27.9 E076 32.7 M54 54 03 045 3761 166784 370 30087 118 118 B209 490 577 0.04 06.56 218040 20181BAVOX N26 08.5 E077 12.9 M54 54 03 041 3802 168213 370 30088 118 118 B209 490 578 0.04 07.00 216611 20185KKJ N24 48.9 E079 55.1 M53 55 02 167 3969 174056116.40 370 30085 119 119 B209 490 576 0.18 07.18 210768 20189BINIG N23 22.3 E081 59.9 M53 55 01 143 4112 179028 370 30079 128 129 UM501 491 569 0.15 07.33 205796 19777JH N21 53.8 E084 02.5 M51 54 01 144 4256 184125314 370 29067 129 132 UM501 494 557 0.15 07.48 200699 19749GUTID N21 04.7 E084 55.9 M50 53 02 069 4325 186673 370 27066 136 141 W49 495 543 0.08 07.56 198151 19788BBS N20 14.6 E085 48.8 M49 53 03 071 4396 189284113.50 370 26068 136 143 W49 496 535 0.08 08.04 195540 19828IGIMI N16 07.3 E090 23.4 M49 54 01 359 4755 202780 370 25056 134 141 UM501 496 520 0.42 08.46 182044 19528ATAMA N14 35.2 E091 59.6 M49 54 00 131 4886 207780 370 24033 136 140 UM501 496 504 0.15 09.01 177044 19291OROMA N13 50.7 E092 46.5 M49 52 00 064 4950 210238 370 23023 135 138 UM501 496 499 0.08 09.09 174586 19291KAGAT N12 20.3 E094 15.6 M49 53 01 125 5075 215125 370 22015 137 139 UM501 496 495 0.15 09.24 169700 19291BEBOG N12 10.9 E094 24.8 M49 53 01 013 5088 215624 370 22012 137 139 UM501 496 495 0.01 09.25 169201 19000TAVUN N10 00.0 E096 33.2 M49 53 01 182 5270 222531 370 22007 137 138 UM501 496 495 0.23 09.48 162295 18811PUT N08 06.9 E098 18.4 M49 54 00 153 5423 228421116.90 370 12006 138 138 UM501 496 490 0.18 10.06 156405 18812DALAN N06 28.1 E099 39.3 M48 54 01 127 5550 233334 370 10011 141 141 B579 497 488 0.16 10.22 151492 18849VPL N06 21.4 E099 44.8 M48 52 01 009 5559 233669114.10 370 11011 141 140 B579 497 487 0.01 10.23 151157 18841VIH N04 34.4 E101 05.6 M48 54 01 134 5693 238756117.30 370 11010 143 142 W531 497 488 0.16 10.39 146070 18555ANSOM N04 04.4 E101 32.3 M58 54 01 040 5733 240678 410 08012 138 137 R325 485 479 0.05 10.44 144148 22940VJR N01 43.8 E103 37.3 M57 54 00 188 5921 247600112.70 410 07008 139 138 R325 486 482 0.24 11.08 137226 17755JB N01 30.0 E103 42.7 M58 54 00 015 5936 248142400 410 08004 160 159 G579 485 484 0.02 11.10 136684 17712SJ N01 13.4 E103 51.3 M58 54 00 019 5955 248827113.50 410 08004 153 153 G579 485 484 0.02 11.12 135999 17713TI N00 55.2 E104 31.6 M58 54 00 044 5999 250450385 410 08002 114 114 A576 485 482 0.06 11.18 134376 17713AKTOD S00 24.8 E105 59.6 M58 54 00 119 6118 254807 410 17002 132 132 A576 485 483 0.14 11.32 130019 17710SANOS S00 42.1 E106 19.0 M58 53 00 026 6144 255745 410 15004 131 131 A576 486 482 0.04 11.36 129081 17418APARI S02 03.9 E107 49.9 M57 53 00 122 6266 260062 410 16004 131 131 A576 486 483 0.15 11.51 124764 17037APAGA S02 47.0 E108 38.0 M58 53 00 065 6331 262326 410 22003 131 131 A576 486 486 0.08 11.59 122500 17036AKULA S03 07.0 E109 00.0 M58 53 00 029 6360 263365 410 25003 131 132 A576 485 486 0.03 12.02 121461 17000SABIL S04 00.0 E110 00.0 M58 53 00 080 6440 266160 410 24005 131 131 A576 485 486 0.10 12.12 118666 17002SUMBU S04 45.3 E110 49.4 M58 53 01 067 6507 268503 410 23009 132 133 A576 485 485 0.08 12.20 116323 17002SIPUT S06 17.0 E112 35.0 M59 54 01 140 6647 273391 410 22013 130 132 A576 485 485 0.18 12.38 111435 17001UDANG S07 44.6 E114 06.3 M59 54 00 126 6773 277698 410 24018 133 135 A576 485 488 0.15 12.53 107128 16679BLI S08 45.0 E115 09.8 M58 54 00 087 6860 280605116.20 410 25022 132 135 A576 485 492 0.11 13.04 104221 16426ILDAM S10 34.7 E116 53.5 M58 54 00 150 7010 285568 410 25027 135 138 A576 485 496 0.18 13.22 099258 16425ATMAP S12 00.0 E118 15.3 M58 54 00 117 7127 289394 410 26033 135 138 A576 486 504 0.14 13.36 095432 16459CIN S17 35.3 E123 51.1 M58 54 01 467 7594 303738114.30 410 28049 134 137 A576 485 525 0.53 14.29 081088 16125TATUK S19 25.8 E126 38.8 M58 54 01 193 7787 309406 410 30060 122 124 A576 485 544 0.22 14.51 075420 15920BISHO S22 16.6 E131 15.3 M58 54 01 310 8097 318293 410 30065 120 121 A576 485 549 0.33 15.24 066533 15766AS S23 47.6 E133 52.7 M59 53 01 171 8268 323078115.90 410 29069 118 119 A576 484 552 0.19 15.43 061748 15438POLEV S26 55.2 E138 10.2 M60 52 01 299 8567 331609 410 28067 122 127 A576 484 540 0.33 16.16 053217 15427APOMA S29 53.9 E142 40.9 M60 51 01 297 8864 340304 410 26066 119 125 A576 484 528 0.34 16.50 044522 15438VIMAB S31 30.9 E145 21.5 M58 50 01 169 9033 345381 410 25054 116 121 A576 485 514 0.20 17.10 039445 15470PKS S33 07.9 E148 14.2 M58 50 00 175 9208 350741113.40 410 24047 113 118 A576 486 507 0.20 17.30 034085 15502TOD M57 39 00 031 9239 351667 410 24044 098 101 A576 487 517 0.04 17.34 033159 15532KAT S33 42.6 E150 18.0 DSC DSC 00 078 9317 352155233 DSC 25027 098 100 A576 457 477 0.11 17.45 032671 02797RIC S33 35.8 E150 46.6 DSC DSC 01 025 9342 352472347 DSC 25002 063 063 W368 326 329 0.04 17.49 032354 04296YSSY S33 56.8 E151 10.6 DSC DSC 01 029 9371 353687 DSC 13007 124 124 DCT 264 258 0.08 17.57 031139 09002 ALTERNATE (MACH LRC)SY S33 56.6 E151 10.8 CLB CLB 01 000 0000 001698112.10 CLB 13010 023 026 DCT 253 253 0.01 00.01 029523 91484TOC CLB CLB 01 011 0011 003904 CLB 20003 195 195 H68 307 303 0.02 00.03 027317 63643WOL S34 33.5 E150 47.5 M11 36 02 031 0042 005484239 140 25008 196 196 H68 342 336 0.06 00.09 025737 17090TOD M11 38 01 036 0078 007314 140 25007 229 229 H68 343 336 0.06 00.15 023907 17138CB S35 16.9 E149 11.7 DSC DSC 01 054 0132 008681116.70 DSC 03002 229 229 H68 297 299 0.12 00.27 022540 06862YSCB S35 18.5 E149 11.6 DSC DSC 01 001 0133 008849 DSC 06010 172 170 DCT 254 264 0.01 00.28 022372 15753CODED ICAO FLIGHT PLAN(FPL--IS-B744/H-SXWHIGRY/S-EGLL1900-N0494F350 DCT DET DCT DVR UG1 KONAN UL607 SPI UZ714 BOMBI UL984 KOROP/N0488F370 UL984 NM UB493 REPLI UM991 VILUR/K0902S1110 B494 URML B119 BUMAR/N0492F370 UB119 NAMAS B143 METKA/K0914S1110 B143 KRS A240 AFGAN UV838 RANAH/N0488F370 UV838 ROSIE V838 ZB G202N BI DCT MURLI DCT TIGER/M085F370 B209 KKJ UM501 JH W49 BBS UM501 ATAMA/N0496F370 UM501 OROMA/M085F370 UM501 BEBOG/N0496F370 UM501 PUT B579 VPL W531 VIH/N0485F410 R325 VJR G579 SJ A576 ATMAP/M085F410 A576 BISHO/N0484F410 A576 KAT W368 RIC DCT-YSSY1757 YSCB -EET/EBUR0014 EDVV0033 EDUU0034 LKAA0100 EPWW0125 UKLV0148 UKBV0210 UKHV0236 UKFV0258 URRV0259 UBBB0404 UTAK0420 UTAA0442 OAKX0524 OPLR0602 OPKR0617 VIDF0629 VABF0715 VECF0733 VYYY0901 VOMF0909 VYYY0926 VTBB0948 WMFC1022 WSJC1110 WIIZ1136 YBBB1336 YMMM1521 REG/L SEL/ DOF/020428 RMK/TCAS EQUIPPED E/1946 P/TBN A/WHITE)EBBDZMFP LFPYZMFP UKLVZQZX UKBVZQZX UKHVZQZX UKHHZQZX UKFVZQZX UKFFZQZX URRVZQZX UBBBZQZX UTAKZQZX UTAAZQZX OAKXZQZX OPLRZQZX OPKRZQZX VIDFZQZX VABFZQZX VECFZQZX VYYYZQZX VOMFZQZX VTBBZQZX WMFCZQZX WSJCZQZX WIIZZQZX YBBBZQZX YMMMZQZX--- END-OF-PLAN

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The biggest challenge to fuel planning is to match the MSFS environment the airplane will be encountering to the data you initially load into the FMC as your preflight setup. You can tell if you are going to make it just by loading the flight plan into the FMC and checking landing fuel. If you have any left, you made it!For instance, the FMC assumes zero winds and standard ISA. If the sim provides that environment, the FMC

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>Funny you say that, because I got that info from a BA>captain.Not sure what this captain told you. Using 100 ft step climb (or even less) would definitely result in most efficient climb but ATC practically never allows you to do things like that. In other words they don't look kindly at someone who is spending lots of time between the regular flight levels while technically at the cruise phase. Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gifhttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

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Hi there,First of all I suggest you to read this http://www.wingfiles.com/files/performance...performance.pdfSecend I did the YSSY-EGLL in the 777-200LR( or -300LR) with full fuel and a typical load. Try to get a hand of some SigWX charts and plan your route on that. I see already that there are serveral jetwinds that would help you, if you laid your route that way. also there are many cyclones in the vicinity of Japan and China. you might also, if you want to get as real as posible check NOTAM/SNOWTAM and plan your route wery carefully. Here at 00UTC, as I see it, you sould fly down thrue europe and then in the northern Kasakhstan then further east to china and mongolia then finally head south thru Vietnam and Malaysia and finally towards Australia.Regards,Martin

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>but ATC practically never allows you to do things like that.I'm well aware of they. The only time BA does it is over the ocean.I mentioned it here because I didn't figure Mark cared much about over land procedures and just wanted to make it to Sydney.

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The absolute most efficient step-climb profile possible would actually be a quick climb to the initial OPT altitude and then a constant slow climb over the course of the flight as the OPT moves upward in real time.Maybe they'll allow this someday if ATC technology ever catches up to the planes themselves...

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Ya know, that would be an interesting experiment. This might be just a case where an actual flight might provide some additional information. First, fully preload the FMC with the enroute winds. Then note the FMC's fuel prediction, waypoint by waypoint. Then do the entire crz phase in a quaisy V/S mode. . . at a --- say --- 10 FPM /ROC (Yes, there's way). You'd have to do a little arithimetic to get that number, i.e., feet (climb) from initial cruise alt to final cruise alt / time from initial cruise to final cruise. The experiment would show how much better the fuel economy would be if a "Constant Climb" cruise profile was followed. Once you got the cruise climb setup, the FMC would immediately tell you the story. If 'fuel remaining' started tracking above the pre-noted FMC predictions, the constant climb was working. But once again, this must be flown in a tightly controlled MSFS enviroment. The wind numbers that the airplane was encountering (in real time) must have been pre-loaded into the FMC in preflight. I have relitive confidence that model is close enough to actually tell this real life story. Hummm.

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Sam, how would one do a 10 FPM rate of climb? Multiples of 100 are all I see. Would it be a case of engaging FLC for a certain speed and setting thrust JUST so the rate of climb was 10 FPM?As for the environment, I'm cheating a little here and setting the winds aloft to a constant tailwind (or tailish anyway), not too high, maybe 20-25 knots.

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Establish cruise. Use any speed on pitch mode (i.e., VNAV SPD or FLCH) that will get thrust into Hold (or disco the AT). Set your altitude to the final step climb and then use thrust to adjust rate. It's the same principle as the AFS's variable rate FLCH mode. Whatever you decide for winds, just set these winds, -- waypoint by waypoint -- into the FMC during preflight. The FMC will tell you if you have enough fuel right there. It's sure more fun to actually fly this, but sadly, the FMC is telling you the result (that is short of some glitch in the PC's computer programs). These modern, real-life aircraft computer systems (like the one we 'play' with here) have pretty much resolved the adventure factor . . . but it needs to be resolved when you have 400 folks suspended over the icy North Atlantic at FL 390. However, the flight could show if a "Constant Climb" cruise profile saves gas. That's worth an actual test flight.

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I tried this exact same flight, without any thought or planning, just an empty 744 / 747 (why 744?) full of fuel at an ozzie airport and a rough bearing..(i cant even remember if it was the 400f or not lol...Anyway i landed in some country i cannot pronounce, once my wheels hit the deck i lost both outer engines, through lack of fuel. upon taxiiing i can only say i took a short cut and went through a puddle, this was deceptively deep and i err crashed!still some lessons are hard learnt, and i now sit gawping at my freshly printed chapter 2 Cruise and FUEL PLANNING. As far as light reading goes its not exactly tom clancy, still, it sure is interestingThis line intentionally blankAlan

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