Hey Randy, you've been doing the PMDG 737NG beta dance for a while now, and the product has finally gone live. Over on the PMDG forum, there are cheers of praise of a well rounded product intermixed with tales of woe of a half baked product (VC, registration process, downloading, AP behaviour to name a few).As a 767PICer, how does it REALLY compare to the pride and joy of this forum? Is the PMDG 737NG the "PIC killer", or does it struggle to contend with the KING?Yours, and any other user who has both products, comparison comments would be greatfully appreciated.Gary

Gary, After a lot of PIC use, and only a little PMDG 737NG use...I'd have to say the latter is in the same league as the former. Not quite the functionality, systems management (in particular how accurate the FMC model is...) of PIC, but the panel quality, layout and graphics are cutting edge. The flight model is also very good, maybe one or two notches below PIC or less. And it just came out and will get better. I'd say they are running neck and neck, but of course the newer product will certainly be modified to run with the newer sim....

Well, let be be as objective here as I can knowing that all my buddies are going to read this ;) I should refrain from direct comparisons because we are talking about two completly differnt aircrafts. I don't need to mention the fact that PIC 767 flys like a real 767, thats a given. The 737 NG not withstanding some known issues with Vnav ( an issue being fixed as I am writing this) and VC memory useage is one incredible airplane. This flight model is unlike anything else I have flown and is modeled as close to the real preformance of the NG currently possible within FS. This is due to the fact that the programmer is worlds ahead of most in this feild. He understands this better than anyone that I have read or heard about in the field. His credentials speak for themself. The A/P is completly built from the ground up and replicates the NG to a *T*, the PFD and ND display all the correct information (Believe me I made sure down to the color on all related items, you will even see the ND HDG bugs move indication the wind direction. The FMC, while not having winds aloft still has more options than *other* comparable aircraft. We will have to wait for the 800-900 to see route offset, but it WILL be there. You will see rounded legs-arcs if the SID etc has them. Trim, pitch etc is simply amazing, and hand flying will leave you wondering why some are complaing about the price. Are there *issues*, yes there are some that are being delt with as we speak, but I would not let this stop anyone from purchasing this aircraft. This bird, while released, is NOT out of production so to speak, it's a on going process with the next release of the 800-900 series with what I will be so bold to say the first *REAL FULLY SIMULATED TCAS* that not only displays other aircraft on a screen, but tells you all relevant information like the real deal which is not a simple thing to accomplish. We will also see a BBJ that will feature a working HUD! We as beta testers are not finished from our work like many are thinking, we have much more to due. There comes a time when everyone feels the aircraft should be released, although we tried our best to make everything free for issues, most of you know it's almost impossible unless you spend much more time than possible. I assure you the PMDG goal for this aircraft is realism and because of this you will not have some things others would expect like Flap engine noise in the cockpit or the radio auto tuning to the ILS, you will see the correct info on the FMC, just like the real deal. I want perfection as most PIC drivers here, but I also don't worry so much about a knob color as to change my mind about a product, we all know this point from flying PIC without a VC and perfect exterior. We understand the importance of the flight model+ systems over *Eye candy*, I don't mean to imply that PMDG is any way lacking, just I have priorities for my choice in the aircraft I fly. Sorry for any spelling errors guys, it's been a very long night......[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith[/h5][h6]The Next Great one? PMDG's 737NG is here![/h6][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Thanks for the review Randy and thanks for asking the question we all had on our minds Gary. :)I never thought of the PMDG bird as a "PIC killer", rather a little brother to our beloved 767, if all the hype was factual.I think this little bird will add a new dimension to our quest for realistic airline flight simulation, and I can't wait to see how she matures through the teething stage. :)I'm waiting until the inital download rush is over before I buy her, but your testimonial (as a fellow PIC'r) is all I need to convince me that she's worth the money.Besides, I have to find a way to spend all this extra cash I get for painting all these planes! :-xxrotflmaoThe one big advantage I can see with the 737 right now is that she works in 2004. But, just like a few years ago when Fs2002 1st hit the scene, FS2002 will remain on my PC after 2004 is out for the sole purpose of flying the PIC 767 panel. :) Regards,Steve Drahttp://sgair.net/mike/banners/steve_small.jpgDownload all my repaints at:http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID...&Go=Change+View

The only problem I am seeing is its price, IMHO.It costs about as much as I paid for FS2002.

I'm going to get a copy of it this week.The only thing I can't figure out - do I have to pay to upgrade to the other phases?

Indeed! $40 yikes!! They are definatly one profit based company i can tell that now!Perhaps Randy asked for danger money from them as it may have screwed up his system :-lol

yep...moi aussi....that's $40 US plus tax + delivery = $65 +/- CDN for an add on...I will need to see some very positive reports from the guinea pigs before the wallet opens....waiting to hear things like..."the flight model is out of this worlkd for realism and consistency...and..."I can put winds in the FMC and it makes a difference to the VNAV/TOD/Fuel, etc...", and "the EFC entry on the hold page actually works"...and "the LRC and ENG OUT calcs are right on the money with the book.."Ya, I know I am picky so and so...I want about $65 CDN worth of pickiness please.Rob.

I expect that will all of the options that will be available in the 800/900 and BBJ releases that it will cost a bit to get them, but that's just me...what I still don't get is why they would release the product without a manual, complete or not.

No manual :-?Surely you jest???"Don't call me 'surely'"

Actually Rob - the line (and DS, the KING of forgetting I mean remembering script lines should confirm) would be:"Surely you can't be serious""I am serious, and don't call me Shirley".or..."This woman has got to be taken to a hospital.""A hospital? What is it?""It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now."

Randy:I appreciate your comments on the NG, however, I'm a bit concerned about the following issues:1. Framerate - Some are reporting severe reductions in frame rate others moderate.2. Apparently it's using the PIC folder for navdata for the FMC but seems quite crippled regarding STARS/SIDS/IAP's and the programing of such.3. Lack of a manual - Especially since there seems to be some rather critical install issues, like the GDI or how to program a star.4. For a packaged that was delayed and delayed because they wanted it to be "bug free as possible" seems to have fallen rather short of the mark.As a beta tester perhaps you can comment on if the above is being addressed and what you found specifically relating to the above while doing your beta test.

Maybe I was unclear...there will be a manual released, but it's just not ready yet. Nonetheless I don't see why PMDG released the plane without a manual.Ryan

Sure,1] It's not a problem (it's a problem with RESOURCES useage) thats being delt with, I would suggest that one stay away from switching to the VC untill a fix is released which will be sooner than we think ;)2] We only need the PIC 767 AIRAC file (NOT the all in one), a beta tester is working on a converter as we speak, our sids+stars are more friendly to work with and there was good reason it was done that way, I have all major sids if anyone needs some in the mean time. 3] The manual was the last item to be worked on, that's why it is behind the main product. Some of my friends here can ask me for a Real Boeing 737 FCTM (2 megs) if they like ;) while waiting.4] There has never been a project that is this indeth that has left the stables *without defect*, PIC 767 is one of them. We had a couple of real world NG drivers not to mention people other FS well knowns, but one must remember the sheer amount of things to check + fix. We felt we were ready, there's really no point in me crying over spilled milk and debating something we cannot change, anyway, rest assured all items that are being found out WILL BE FIXED. [h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith[/h5][h6]The Next Great one? PMDG's 737NG is here![/h6][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Randy:Thanks for the prompt response. It just seems the only place to get a direct and meaningful reponse is here amongst friends.Okay, I'm sold but I'll wait til the fever dies down so the download can go smooth. In the meantime if you want to send that 737 FCTM my way it would be greatly appreciated. My email is [email protected].