Look in the Avsim library for this zip file,757-67_eicas_messages.zip,You will get an idea of the amount of messages.

"Map switches which aren't there in the real plane."Aircraft engineer steps up to the batting plate....Bernt... no offence... but just how many variations of 767's have you flown in your one year of 767 flying? I once went looking for the part number of a glareshield lightplate for a 747 and found at least 10 different variations in the Boeing Parts Catalogue. I suspect the 767 is similarly optioned (but I haven't specifically gone looking for 767 lightplates). Incidentally, I heard a rumour that there are a number of 767 pilots in the LDS1 development team.... almost all from different airlines. I'm pretty sure they all have their own idea of what the sim should look like... but, at the end of the day, unless an option menu is introduced with literally hundreds of selectable options, they won't get a plane that is exactly configured like (all of) their aircraft... especially at the price Flight1 is selling it (whatever that is)."The 2D overhead panel HAS been updated since v1, so why not the main panel ?"Probably limited by hours in the day... and the impatience of their customers... just as PMDG was (Just ask Randy). BTW, I seem to recall a whole heap of things missing in PMDG's early series NG's. I haven't seen the LDS1 video in question, but I hear there is a new 2D panel (the entire right half is new)."2. The UGLY orange caution messages. This might have been an 'easy-to-distinguish-mode'in the original 767PIC,but today with addons like the pmdg 737 this is neither desireable nor realistic."I won't argue this point, but I wouldn't start comparing the realism of PMDG's NG with LDS1's 767.... unless you have flown these aircraft in real life. I'm sure they both have their strong and less-strong points when it comes to realism. BTW, those ugly orange caution messages in PIC helped me pass some of my exams (a good memory aid)... bad excuse, I know, but...."4. Maybe the pilots forgot to push the ASA reset button, but even a single engine landing shouldn't have a NO AUTOLAND indication. The -300ER can do a perfect autoland on one engine)"Depends on who you ask... Some 767 pilots say even with two engines operating, the 767 can make a bad autoland :( And never trust your ASA... It can lie to you."8. The above point directly connects to this one.The cockpit simulted here is of the VERY old -300ER type.E.g. the alternate stab trim levers can only be found in the really old ships."Your point being? Some of us have been around 767's for 15 years or more... and many are still flying/working on suitcase-handled 767-300ER's. I'm just wondering how many times you, personally, have had to use the Alternate Trim switches ("in anger") in real life? And in the sim, what does it matter?... You still use a mouse to operate them. BTW, suitcase handles are probably the safer of the two types (as they don't need electrics to operate them). On this point, the early 767's were seriously over-engineered.... When the 767 proved to be so reliable, Boeing started removing some of the over-redundant safety features. "Same for the PCP on the overhead panel. In newer planes you get an EICAS message, and there is no seperate radar altimeter."Again... your point being? "New" doesn't necessarily make it better. And what's a "radar" altimeter? (other than a typographical error in a pilot's manual)..... Hey, I can be picky, too! You always have the option of not looking at it.I apologise if I am mistaken, but I think your main gripe with the new sim is that it isn't exactly the same as your aircraft. I don't think this is a particularly valid reason for berating the new sim.Anyway, that's my 2c's worth... and I look forward to the next round (when LDS1 is released). If you've flown PICv1, I'm sure you'll see both major and minor improvements in LDS1 that even real world pilots would appreciate ;)Cheers.Ian.

"Map switches which aren't there in the real plane."I believe Bertn refers to the HSI control panel visible in the main 2D panel, which you won't find there in any real 757/767 no matter its age/version. I guess this is a developer's compromise to add functionality to the panel operation and from that point of view it's perfectly valid.Tom

"I believe Bertn refers to the HSI control panel visible in the main 2D panel, which you won't find there in any real 757/767 no matter its age/version." Thanks for the clarification, Tom.... but didn't he later compare PMDG's realism with LDS1's? Perhaps he hasn't noticed the extra "MAZLFOTC" switches in PMDG's NG? BTW, does anyone have any helpful suggestions as to how to access these functions easily without having to programme multiple keypresses into their joysticks? Note: You can only go so far when it comes to hidden clickspots (Just ask the nice folks at PMDG how many forum messages have been posted on the hidden clickspot for "TOGA").Thanks.Cheers.Ian.

Well this is just my suggestion and probably how I would implement it:make hidden click areas that are _logical_. The TOGA switch you are referring to is definetely not straightforward...I would have an EHSI control panel open up if you right click the EHSI.Right click the top part of the panel and you get the overhead.Right click the EICAS and you get its controls...I would also include the control panels in their original position (if you open the throttle quadrant, you get the EHSI controls) so you can maintain realism. If you're doing the preflight and currently on the pedestal, you can adjust the EHSI.If you are enroute and need to concentrate on the EHSI and simultaneously change the EHSI mode, you can activate the (small) EHSI control panel...The advantage about being a developer is that you can decide :-)Or maybe that's the disadvantage of it? ;-)Regards,Mark

I agree to maintain the realism as much as possible. In my 757-200 panel project, I managed to reproduce one pedestal variation out of a bunch you may find out there. Need to guess where go the switches though :-) Regards,Tom

Where can these videos be downloaded? Thanks a million!Troy

Troy,1 is in the avsim file library - the other at www.simradar.comThe 1 at Avsim is about 60 Meg, the other around 90 Meg - just to warn you in case your on dial up.

Hi Ian,Greetings from shanghai :-)(the only destination where our crew hotel has a free internet account)>no offence... but just how many variations of 767's have you flown in your one year of 767 flying? IWe had 6 767s and all of them were different. PCP, Audio panel,FMC,analog - no analog ASI etc....One of the things one needs to get used to.>they won't get a plane that is exactly configured like (all of) their aircraft... So we are not going to have an airline config option like PMDG ?A small 'problem' is, that with the map switches on the main instrument panel it looks more like a 744 or 777 layout than a 767.Point is, that the VC has the correct layout but the 2D panel seriously differs from it's own VC panel (and the real 767)(e.g.missing standby instruments)>Probably limited by hours in the day... and the impatience of their customers... Not a valid argument. Especially with the as-real-as-possible planes I assume that most (virtual) pilots would be happy to wait for a sound and complete product instead of a rushed and unfinished one.They apparently used a lot of time for a superb visual model and a super VC, but most pilots will spend their time flying with the 2D panel. >Some 767 pilots say even with two engines operating, the 767 can make a bad autolandSure, but it's not about the quality of the autoland but about the fact that it CAN do it under theses circumstances>And never trust your ASA... It can lie to you.??? I didn't know THAT. Everybody I talked to, and everything I read, made be believe that this is about the only instrument you can really trust. >Your point being? Some of us have been around 767's for 15 years or more...My point is that if you could fly the latest model of a 76, why simulate a 15 year old one. It's not a sentimental journey.Furthermore, if you e.g. get a cabin call or acars message, you would get an EICAS message instead of having to call up the overhead panel every time ;-)>"New" doesn't necessarily make it betterI do hope the new version doesn't simulate the really old 76 because I would prefer the radar altimeter (or as you will most probably call it, radio altimeter) not to stop at 30ft with its call outs ;-)>I apologise if I am mistaken, but I think your main gripe with the new sim is that it isn't exactly the same as your aircraft. Not at all. I was just a bit surprised that the approx 6 year old eric ernst panel hasn't been updated and because of tha differs from it's own new VC panel.>I don't think this is a particularly valid reason for berating the new sim.I NEVER talked about the new sim let alone rate it, I was just asking a few question about 2 preview videos I saw.I DO believe that this will be a great and superb product (just look at the mouth watering external model and VC) and i keep my fingers crossed for a (as far as possible) bugfree release.I would LOVE to fly it completely from the VC !!!!I do apologize if I gave you all the wrong impression of my opinion !All the bestBernt

I bet I am the only one who first read the title as"LDS 767 porno video questions"

">Probably limited by hours in the day... and the impatience of their customers... Not a valid argument. Especially with the as-real-as-possible planes I assume that most (virtual) pilots would be happy to wait for a sound and complete product instead of a rushed and unfinished one."I'm not so convinced that this isn't valid, Bernt. I'm just wondering how many folks migrated to products like PMDG's NG in the long wait for the former PIC team to bring out a FS9 compatible 767? What would be the point of bringing out a FS9-compatible simulator six to twelve months from now, only a short time before the release of the (probably incompatible) "FS10"? The LDS1 team would lose most of their potential customers and, from what I hear, they have already had to make quite a few sacrifices to bring you what you already see in the demos... LDS only has a core team of 4 or 5 guys... and, AFAIK, these guys have regular day jobs. The guys like to hit the programming hard for a few months and get it over and done with... so they can get back to a normal life and their families. Forward momentum can be lost if you don't do it this way. On the downside, you can't keep up this kind of pace forever.>So we are not going to have an airline config option like PMDG ?I'm sure there will be quite a few selectable options in LDS1 as there was in PICv1. However, the type of options you are talking about involve making changes to main panel bitmaps. Even PMDG is limited in this respect. Being a downloadable product, the sim has to be of a downloadable size. If you added 4 non-CRT variations, you'd probably need 16 different main panel bitmaps. Being quite large, you cannot have too many bitmaps in one package (This I was told by the PMDG guys during the development of their aircraft). If you are asking for things like analog Radio Altimeters to be removed, this would require large remappings of bitmaps (and all the hidden programming underneath them). A similar thing applies to options like dual Fuel Crossfeed Switches, Equipment Cooling controls, Cargo Heat Switches, etc. Having lots of options also tends to limit the amount of time you can spend beta testing them (They often have a tendency to create unpredictable ripple effects in other parts of the sim).You'll probably find that LDS1 will be more focused on the accuracy of system modelling, rather than lots of whimsical variations with just "average" programming.BTW, when it comes to options, you also have to consider what data the programmers have at their fingertips. They might not have sufficient data on all system options to effectively model them. Pilot manuals do not always tell the whole story. From what I've heard, some LDS1 systems will be modelled to the depth of individual electrical relays (For example, with only the Main Battery switched on (no Standby Power), on a previously dead ship (real aircraft), you may see a VALVE light on the Left engine NAI switch on the overhead panel, but not one in the Right NAI switch (This is not due to valve position or availability of power to the system. This is due to the position of certain indication relays)."My point is that if you could fly the latest model of a 76, why simulate a 15 year old one. It's not a sentimental journey."Regarding reproducing a newer 767.... Just where should LDS draw the line? (Why not make a 767-400?). I think you'll find data on newer aircraft can be harder to find than old stuff... and the guys experienced on these older aircraft are probably more plentiful (otherwise, I'm sure the LDS1 team would be programming a 7E7 right now :-)) Regardng the ASA, I was only referring to the fact that below 200', you won't know if your system has degraded from LAND3 to LAND2. Also, as I understand it, on our aircraft, if you get a single A/P sensor fault after you have armed APProach and you then push the reset button, the ASA display will blank until after you have landed (unless you lose all ability to Autoland). This seems to me to be slightly misleading."We had 6 767s and all of them were different. PCP, Audio panel,FMC,analog - no analog ASI etc....One of the things one needs to get used to."Not so strangely, our airline has a similar setup (although we've sold/retired all of our REALLY old JT9D-powered -200ER series). I, too, wouldn't mind if the suitcase handle switches were replaced, but then you have to consider time/effort Vs impact on the simming community. You would have to modify bitmaps, wiring, EICAS message logic, Sim Failure modelling, etc... and considering the number of times these switches will be used by LDS1 users, I can't see LDS placing this high on their priority list. I've just flown around the world twice in cyberspace(with random failures set on many of the sectors) and haven't had to use the handles once. Anyway, 'nuff said.... I apologise for misunderstanding your words (I think a few other folks also made the same mistake and interpreted some of the things you said as being somewhat strong criticisms).See you at the checkout counter when LDS1 is released :-)Cheers.Ian.

Sorry for the late post, but only just stumbled on this thread.D/L the video...... very nice.BUT, please tell me I'm wrong... quite clearly the Speed Brake lever appears to labelled "SPEED BREAK" ....????

Tuppy ..fellow OrstralianYou are indeed correctIt does say Speed BREAK on the Speed BRAKE leverHey LDS does this mean a free copy of the new beastie for two down underians??:7Rob YMA002 - Compass Airlines Australia - a new direction!

Seems to be nothing new to get anwsers like that if someone critizies something that is unflawed for Darryl!

:-beerchug