Yea, FS is a hard one to get a handle on FS performance via benchies. There are sooo many variables. By means of some standard measurement basis, we're stuck. I'm not even really sure what a shader model is supposed to measure. How does it relate to FS?With our modern Core 2 CPUs, the single core CPU bottleneck appears to be entirely related to Autogen, AI and big airplane FMCs. With AG and AI off (and a default airplane), I have No problems maintaining 30+ FPS with everything else on hi (sans bloom and max-hi water). GEX has saved the day. AG is really no longer necessary in many cases. I expect the added 3dMark SM scores might let me bump to hi water. Real problems only start when I try to bring in traffic and AG (or fly my PMDG 744). My frame rate tanks. That's the CPU bottleneck. Once a modest (3.0ghz+) Core2 clock is available, it appears the basic game is all about Vcard. The single core CPU bottleneck is about AI, AG and (serious) addon airplanes. The additional cores are about loading scenery. The Vcard chores and the CPU chores seem to be separate and definable. . . and the 8800GT/GTS/3870XYZ2 series are Darn near enough Vcard. CPU? We've got the hardware sitting in our sockets Right Now. We just need Actual multicore support to get AI and AG on board. Really, that's all we're missing.

>Tim,>>Do you mean a single 3870 or the new 3870X2? This is ATI's>latest card and is faster that the 8800GTX. With 2 GPUs and>1Gb of RAM it is a monster card and choice of case is>important.Tim, there are new versions of 3870x2 that are shorter and so aren't as case-specific.NoelQX9650 w/ Retail HSF|8GB Muskin PC-6400|ASUS P5E|EVGA 8800GT @700|Seagate SATA 2 x 4|Seagate Cheetah 15K.x|XP Pro|Vista 64--soon to be installed

>I'm not so sure about that 3870 dualie.>>http://www.pcstats.com/NewsView.cfm?NewsID=64516>>With the 3870X2:>"In 3DMARK06 at 2560X1600, benchmark scored 9573 ((SM2.0:>4494, SM3.0/HDR: 4476)." >>With the 8800GT at 710Mhz, I'm getting: >In 3DMARK06 at 1920X1080, benchmark scored N/A ((SM2.0:>4950, SM3.0/HDR: 4700).>>That's a pretty close horse race. The GTS @ 775mhz has gotta>be closer. I'm seeing 6500 SM2/3 scores @ that 1280 res. At>$230, that's hard to beat. > >http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.ph...ts#post10370727Let's check the math, shall we?ATi@2560x1600=4,096,000 pixels.NV@1920x1080=2,073,600 pixels2,073,600 / 4,096,000 = 50.625%Same scores, with half the pixels? Sounds like a good comparison to me...

>The newer 8800GTS 640MB SSC with 112 SP, >has a 320bit memory interface compared >to the 256 bit on the 8800GT and new ATI cards.>>According to Phil Taylor that makes the biggest difference for>FSX.>See his blog for more details.>>>>>The 640MB 8800GTS isn't the new one. The new one only has 512MB. If you have the 320MB or 640MB, you have the old GTS.

3870 if you're running a P35. later on add another one with x-fire and you'll be laughing for quite sometime.unless ATI sorts out the vista drivers for the 3870x2 (and im sure they will) which is essentially 2 gpu's on one pcb...that card is blowing most things out of the water at the moment.since you have a P35 i would lean towards ATI imo

>3870 if you're running a P35. later on add another one with>x-fire and you'll be laughing for quite sometime.>>unless ATI sorts out the vista drivers for the 3870x2 (and im>sure they will) which is essentially 2 gpu's on one pcb...that>card is blowing most things out of the water at the moment.>>since you have a P35 i would lean towards ATI imoYour forgetting that the GPU doesn't have the impact on FSX it does with other games. As evidence by the fact in the Toms Hardware review (Linked above) the 3870 still came in behind a Nvidia 6800 Ultra card, along with most other later Nvidia offerings! (Not by much though) In other games the story might be different, but as far as FSX goes Nvidia is still ahead!!

I've just spent the last week building a new system based on a E8400 and the Abit 3870 X2. Tonight I tried a quick flight in FS9 from EGLL up to EGCC.The frame rates with all sliders on max ranged from 40+ at EGLL (UK2000 with 100% Ai) up to 100+ whilst airborne towards EGCC and that's running at 1920*1200!!. Those frame rates will probably come as no surprise but what did impress me was the visual quality of the clouds and ground textures. I've never seen AS6.5 clouds or GE looking so good. The whole experience was wonderful.Okay, I'm probably in for a shock with FSX but the main point of this post is to extoil the virtues of the 3870X2 card and the ATI drivers. It's giving me the best FS9 images I'm ever seen.FSX is going to look stunning even if the frame rates don't quite live up to FS9 levels.

To be frank.. FSX is not a GPU bound product at all.. Tomshardware guide proves this.. the 7000 series NV cards get similar performance to the 8800 Ultra on their benchmark tests.. If you have money to spend.. I'd get more GHz on your CPU.. Buying a new GFX card isn't the way to go.. As for which to go for.. since power of the GPU doesn't matter one bit really.. buy the cheapest..

Craig,Those tests on TomsHardware are not reliable. There was a lengthy discussion in another thread and this post was telling... http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...787&page=#36868No, FSX is not GPU bound but you should still use a powerful graphics card. Phil Taylor's blog gave very useful advice about what to look for.A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. ;-)

>In order of fastest to slowest:>>8800GT>3870>9600GT>>I'd go for the 8800GT, seeing as how cheap they areAfter reading some specifications for 8800gt and 9600gt I find that the 8800gt is somewhat more expensive than 9600gt if you wan't 512M DDR3. Also by reading the specification I got an impression of the 3870 being somewhat more powerful than the 8800gt at similar price.Is not the 8800 overestimated?

FSX is CPU and bandwidth bound, ie fasest CPU and memory gives the greatest improvement, i just replaced my 8800GTS 320 with a 9600 GT 512 and so far really havnt seen any difference, eacept with the extra mem my panning seems to be improved. but more flying to se what chages. For $240 here in aus not a bad buy.

For FSX:9600GT: Piece of garbage 3870: Piece of garbage3870X2: Not bad, but far from being a high-end card, doesn't even come anywhere near close to a 8800GT, GTX, or Ultra.8800GT: Very good cardMy card: 9800GX2, awesome card, but not much difference between the 8800's when it comes to FSX as FSX is CPU bound. But for any other game...Incredibally awesome video card !!!**** VERY IMPORTANT FOR FSX ****Spend your money instead on a cheap, but very, very good overclocking CPU chip like the Q6600 G0 version (not the B3 version) with an ASUS P5K-E, one-of-the-best overclocking motherboards out there, even though there is no PCI_E 2.0, just the PCI-E 1.1. I'll take the benifits from a 3.6 GHZ quad core before I worry about a PCI-E slot not being 2.0 and no video card yet that exists that uses the full bandwith of the PCI_E 1.1 anyways.You won't even need anything extra other than a cheap Cooler Master case as it has excellent cooling and ventilation. Just GOOGLE overclocking Q6600 G0 version (not B3 version) and you will see a baby can overclock that thing from a quad core 2.4 GHZ to 3.0 GHZ with stock cooling out of a cheap Cooler Master case, and easily go to 3.6 GHZ with decent mainstream cooling like the ThermalRight Ultra-120 eXtreme cooler which is about 40 bucks. No issues, very stable and cool after the overclock.I have my quad core Q6600 G0 version (G0 is pronounced Gee-zero) thats clocked from 2.4Ghz to 3.6 Ghz, some other folks have theirs at 4 Ghz. Which is much faster than the best quad core CPU out there in the QX9650 and the QX6850 which costs an incredible $1100.00 right now. Not bad for a $200.00 CPU and a $150.00 motherboard.RESULTS: FSX will run like you have never seen FSX run before, its awesome.

This is an interesting discussion but I still disagree with the notion that FSX is GPU limited. If that was the case then:A - Why are the only people who get good results over clocking their CPU to death?B - Why is it everyone with decent CPUs such as fast Duos etc, get next to no improvement, even though they upgrade their GFX card to almost the best on the market.It's a CPU problem, and needs major CPU horse power to get going, if you want good results buy a

Of course if you really have excess money, imagine a set of SLI 9800 GX2's. You would have to weld an extra box onto the side of your case, though.