Sign in to follow this  
MarkRey

FS9 add-on cost discussion

Recommended Posts

Anyone can charge any price for anything as long as it's clearly advertised - caveat emptor is my motto and it's served me well.RegardsMark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

wewll its worth what u think it is...if you think an addon is not worth your time from reading reviews, well then its not worth my 5 dollars either, because simply put, I will not fly it.. even if it was free...but there are planes out there (let me say PMDG 744/F series) and imo its worth the 50 dollars to me... i'm willing to pay it... and maybe even more... when I *think* its too much, thats exactly when its too much :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,'A fool and his monet are soon parted' is a motto I have lived with for manet years now and I have no intention of changing. I can't afford to anyway.Pay the price and if you think afterwards it was too much you shouldn't have bought it!Andy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Developers set the price: customers decide if they are prepared to pay it or not. It's as simple as thatThe ultimate choice is the customers and their collective decisions determines sales, revenue and profits/loss of any product. Questions such as "is it too expensive?", "how many are sold", or "what did it cost to make?" are irrelevant in this context.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought my first boxed 'plane recently - the PMDG 747, which if I'm not mistaken is the highest-priced addon aircraft currently available, and whatsmore from a famously over-priced store. I knew I could get it cheaper downloading or shopping elsewhere but I still laid out the cash. My impatience, my decision and no regrets.Something I'm happy to pay for in payware is the developers' willingness to accept and correct any bugs, failures, errors or whatever.When a developer either refuses to accept that there's something wrong or refuses to correct it, that's when I feel ripped off.(Now, if I could only figure out what to do with those two different A310s sitting unused on my HD, I'd be a lot happier.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was wondering how development costs figure into the end price.Take a product like Vauchez's Portland scenery, which by most standards, is a high quality add-on. It costs about $32. How many units of a product like this get sold? A thousand? Five thousand? I'm curious what the expected return is.The flightsim add-on buying community not really that big. And we communicate a great deal in these forums. Good news and bad news posts spread the word like fire. You would suspect this would guide the developers in some way but it doesn't seem to be the case. My curiosity arose from the Aeroplane Heaven Lancaster. I paid $45 for it, a premium add-on price, yet the plane was low res with mushy textures and most models didn't even have a VC. Also, the 150 meg plane DL was followed by a 115 meg patch. Now, given that we are a tight fairly community, and people have somewhat similar expectations of quality & price, how can one company market a clearly substandard product for a super premium price when it is clearly below the quality of other products costing a third less or more? Do they think we won't notice? Do they care?The Shockwave WWII Fighters collection, for example, sells for about $30 and you get five gorgeous planes (Shockwave makes nice stuff!). But you can DL one plane at a time for $18.99 each. How does the developer figure that five planes bought together on a CD in a box (both of which cost money) should cost $30 when a DL of the same products one at a time should cost nearly $100? That's no small difference. Why wouldn't they sell the individual planes for $9.99? You'd figure they'd sell a ton of them at that price, and still make more money than in the boxed set.I'm also curious if in a year or two, when FSX is ironed out and flies well with add-ons, if the developers will still be asking premium prices on FS9 add-ons. I'm sure some will, but I do admit to wondering how they justify asking $30+ for a three year old add-on for a four year old flightsim. It almost seems like stubborn pride.In any case, I'm not really complaning, I'm just endlessly curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As the saying goes, "One man's garbage is another man's treasure."It definately holds true in this hobby.My standards are very high these days.... I fly ONLY from the virtual cockpit ( via TrackIR ) and as such DEMAND a smooth, FPS-friendly , fully-functional VC.When it comes to airliners, I think the PMDG 747-400(with or without the freighter) and the Level-D Simulations 767-300 are (currently) the best planes that fit (close enough anyways) my needs. Both of them are FAIRLY okay on the framerates ( though the PMDG hits borderline ) and are pretty functional. They both also have acceptable gauge refresh rates. They both have things I wish the other had. I feel that the Level-D 763 is priced much better but I DO feel that the PMDG 744 is worth it ( if you fly long-hauls often ).When it comes to General Aviation, I feel that the Digital Aviation Dornier Do-27 is the top of the line. Close runner-ups are the Digital Aviation Cheyenne ( doesn't model failures and maintenance ) and the Real Air Simulations SF260 Marchietti. Following those are probably the Dreamfleet Beech A-36 Bonanza and their Beech B-58 Baron. I do like the Real Air Simulations Spitfire / Scout package but just don't fly those very often. An oldie but a goody is the Aerosoft Beaver. Pretty much their only REAL decent release ( for planes, not scenery ). All of those planes listed are reasonably priced ( as GA planes should be ).Concerning scenery, obviously FlightScenery's FlightZones 1 and 2 both top the charts in both categories ( price AND quality ). Immediately following FlightScenery has to be FlyTampa's airports. Their packages are close runner-ups and are also pretty cheap ( though they only do 1 airport with each release as opposed to FlightScenery's which cover multiple airports in a package ). I think that the Aerosoft Frankfurt is a decent buy as well. A different type of scenery but still definately considered a true scenery package would be Holger Sandmann's work ( granted, he doesn't always work alone, Bill Womack and Jon Patch [ and others ] ). Misty Fjords, Tongass Fjords, Vancouver+, all of Holger's freeware meshes... they are all amazing. Worth every penny if you like to do VFR flights following a sectional.Non-specific scenery is a whole different matter. Add-ons like Ultimate Terrain, Ground Environment Professional etc... These are good and bad... UT makes default areas look better but there's always addon compatibility issues with specific scenery add-ons. I don't use UT ( have tried it, didn't like the extra effort required to make all of my other add-ons work, just a personal thing ) but I think it's not too bad of a price. I have not yet tried Ground Environment Professional because it's priced at $50 and that's just over my limit at the moment. I have heard nothing but positive reviews though so it IS on my next-to-buy list. Lastly, I'd say ActiveSky is a must-have utility for every virtual pilot... be it an airline pilot or a bush pilot... it's priced very reasonably and adds SO much depth to your flying experience.Anyhow, like I said though... every person has their own views. I know lots of people love that newly-released Tiger Moth. It's over $40 so only the true Moth fans will buy it but I hear it's nice. The Eaglesoft Development Team has come up with some really nice planes. I have owned their Cirrus SR-22 and thought it was okay but very VERY hard on my framerates ( I hear there's a patch out now? dunno ). Others have spoken very highly of their other releases but they just don't fit what I'm looking for.Some people love the Captain Sim / PSS products. I don't but hey that's just me. I've been burned by Captain Sim ( in a legit transaction they refused support but that's another story ) so I refuse to even glance at their products now. I have tried a few PSS products and don't like them but that's not to say you won't so don't base your purchase decision on my personal experience :(That's about it. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are flight-sim add-ons different from any other free enterprise market? There aren't any (at least that I see) monopolistic powers involved, or anything else which makes the market function improperly? Just because we are a "small" community (honestly I don't think we're so small that simple market forces aren't effective), we should all agree on what is good and bad? I guarantee you that for every add-on you are unhappy with or would not buy, there is someone out there right now using it and loving it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this thread will run for a while (and should be mailed daily to all software developers) and already a comment by CanadaOne has hit a chord.I think many of us take too much of this for granted: when we're pleased with a purchase we enjoy it, and when we are disappointed we make some noise but soon give up. And I think we should be more active in our responses to good or bad deals.Recently I was looking for some new scenery to broaden my horizons, and I discovered that big lump of land that is the USA.Flightzone Portland - WOW! - speechless.Fly Tampa KSFO and KMDW - excellence of the highest order.Oceanflight (ex-Simflyers) bundle - OUCH! - Oh dear, that was a mistake. (Very clever, sell the old stuff under a new name.)So I started looking for customer reviews - I was at simMarket - and really there were very few. And there ought to be lots: this is after all a community, and a pretty small one, and we ought to look out for each other. (Sorry if this sounds a bit "Hello flowers, hello trees"). When we need help we don't hesitate to forumpost, and there's always a hardcore of people who seem to do nothing else but help others with advice and ideas.But there's a distinct lack of "Beware This Junk" and the alternate praising of excellence.And the forums often don't help: recently I was strong-armed for being too vociferous about a shoddy product, and it smelled too much like Not Wanting To Upset An Advertiser for my liking.Let's have more of those posts praising or warning about products, and let's hope the developers keep an eye on our opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>I think many of us take too much of this for granted: when>we're pleased with a purchase we enjoy it, and when we are>disappointed we make some noise but soon give up. Honestly I can't remember the last time I purchased an add-on and was genuinely disappointed. It has been said time and time again, but people need to avoid impulse buys and do their research. I see so many threads that start out, "I just bought product X and I have a question about it". It turns out to be something which they could have asked before they bought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I was strong-armed for being too vociferous about a shoddy product, and it smelled too much like Not Wanting To Upset An Advertiser for my liking."If you have an accusation to make, make it. Don't know who "strong armed" you or why you believe that, but I really take umbrage to the implied accusation that AVSIM is patrolling the forums and eliminating messages that might offend our advertisers. If you think that of us, then you don't need to be here, obviously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>If you have an accusation to make, make it. Don't know who>"strong armed" you or why you believe that, but I really take>umbrage to the implied accusation that AVSIM is patrolling the>forums and eliminating messages that might offend our>advertisers. If you think that of us, then you don't need to>be here, obviously.I'd have to back up Tom here. .. and ask anyone, I'm hardly a kiss-a**. I've posted my fair share of negative comments about products with no ill-recourse. Granted, you have to do so with class. I outright altered a known corporate logo (see my first post in this thread) when I got burned and I lashed out. I got warned then and haven't done it since. I mean, I can't blame them though, it was pretty bad. :(Anyhow, I definately agree that more people need to voice their opinions ( but try to keep them objective -- though difficult at times ) on various add-ons. Reviews are great but any ONE review is based on ONE person's experience. Everyone's experience differs. As someone said in this thread, one add-on that one person claimed as awful another claimed was great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback Northridge.And like JGreth123 said, "one man's garbage is another man's treasure." Ain't that the truth.I am of the opnion that if the developers were more interactive with us paying flightsimheads, they would better understand their market and they would make more money. If they had more money, they could produce more and better products. As it is, from what many people post, some companies really have a "You're lucky we made this plane at all!" mentality instead of a "What can I do for you?" frame of mind.Also, IMHO, prices are too high across the board. I think lower prices would lead to better sales and more profit through volume.Wouldn't it be better to sell 2000 units and make $5 on each than to sell only a thousand and make $10 on each? Since the cost of duplicating a DL sales product is close to zero, there is really no increased cost to the company and odds are they'll have more people using their product and visiting their site to look at other planes for sale.For example, the Shockwave HE-219 looks like a five star plane according to all the reviews. Most people would love to have it in their hangar. I would. But at $32 some of us average folk have to consider the price and wonder if that's where we'll spend our limited flightsim funds. That's a lot of buyers possibly walking away. If Shockwave lowered that price by 50%, do you think they would make up for lost unit profit through increased sales?Again, we have to take into account what it costs to make the plane and how many they think they will sell. Is it possible they think they will only sell X amount of the plane regardless of cost and therefore structure the price accordingly?(I'm mentioning Shockwave because they have an excellent customer reputation and put out a great product. So they make a worthwhile example to use in this case.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom,I am not making accusations but stating a fact. And why on earth would you automatically assume that I was referring to Avsim? There are many other flightsim forums out there.For your peace of mind: it was not Avsim.Regards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no rule that says if you halve the price then number of sales will double - that's just wishful thinking. If a product is priced at $50 and sells 1000 units then the revenue is $50,000. If the price is reduced to $25 but the sales increase to 1500 units then the revenue falls to $37,500.For any product there is a factor called "elasticity of demand" by economists. This is an indicator of how total revenue changes with changes in price. Unless the elasticity is 1.0 or greater then increasing price will reduce revenue. Without knowledge of the market for individual products there is no way to know the value of elasticity in advance. So speculation about the effect of price changes without any evidence is pointless - especial when it's assumed that the Shockwave (as an example) doesn't know its own business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this