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CanadaOne

A320 for $50US is too much!

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$50 US for the A320? $50!Call me a cheapskate, call me whatever you want, but prices for add-ons are getting out of hand.$50 is too much, evidenced this time by the company screwing the pooch on the initial distribution. This was another sign that super-premium prices do not guarantee super premium service or content. Super-premium prices are popping up too often on products that do not justify the cost. The Aeroplane Heaven/JustFlight Lancaster was a pooch with a super-premium price of $40. Proof of poochyness was the 125 meg patch they had to release for the 160 meg plane.Likewise their Tiger Moth, a very nice plane in this case, is also a super-premium $40. At $20 this plane would be a rock solid deal, at $30, expensive but nice, for $40 it's simply too expensive and the buying public needs to say so. It's not simply a case of chosing to buy or not to buy, but to make sure that super-premium prices for add-ons don't become the norm. We would all suffer for that. We are consumers and we have the right to voice our opinions. There are some buyers who insist, with great vehemence, that we have no right to question the prices of add-ons. They are wrong. Our status as the target clients for these products gives us the right to speak up about marketing strategies and prices. As for the argument that add-on products, quality, and prices are too diverse to compare and are exempt from discussion, they are wrong again. If, in your opinion, you bought a great plane for $20 and a pooch for $40, you have the right to compare them and express yourself. Your opinion is perfectly valid. The developers need to keep prices reasonable. They cite their costs saying "Oh, but it took three years to build." Fine then, but if it took three years to build and you have the chutzpa to charge a super-premium price, you had best be prepared the reap the whirlwind if your products farts in any way.The people complaining have every right to complain.We need a flightsim buyers union.

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If I don't like the price I don't buy. If many people are reluctant yet still end up buying, the pricing is plausible on the seller's part.With the other A320 coming, why does anyone even care how much this one cost?

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how can they keep prices reasonable when the number of people who will buy the product is extremely small? people demand 100% realism yet refuse to pay for the cost of that

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On the contrary, people are shelling out super-premium prices and not getting the realism often promised.My point was the more companies sell middle shelf add-ons for super-premium prices, the more companies will follow. It could lead to a general trend of higher prices.I'm simply pointing out that a collective effort to inform the developers of our price and quality concerns could lead to better prices, better quality, and happier customers. A good deal all 'round.

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i agree with you on this alex. there are full, 100%, certified simulators available -- hope you have a few $million laying around.FSers want the entire package without the entire price. for us FSers 'long in the tooth' we remember the freeware golden era of FS98. that time has now passed (there are still some amazing freeware available, but not close to the quantity there once was). as has been discussed in other threads few people can identify any full time addon developer. these folks have other jobs in order to live. FS is a 'addon' to their life. a labor of love really.if FSers were willing to pay the prices that allow developers to focus full-time on their products we would see a few things:*products that are more realistic (within the limits of FS).*products with fewer bugs at release (no product comes to market in the computer world bug free ... thanks IBM for outsourcing development back in the late 70s).*products going from 'annoucement' to publication in months v. years. (there was a thread, what forum i can't remember, where a programmer discussed how the code writing involved in FS was not especially difficult for a full time programmer. the post outlined how when one can focus on a project things can happen quickly. this is not the case for FS addons.)PSS has a good discussion of the cost in bringing a product to market, and the 'profit' a developer can realize (see pg. 148, A320 professional pilot's operating manual).life costs money people. the cost of life will continue to increase (ie, inflation). if we want FS products of quality we must be willing to pay real money so the developers can live.--

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>On the contrary, people are shelling out super-premium prices>and not getting the realism often promised.>>My point was the more companies sell middle shelf add-ons for>super-premium prices, the more companies will follow. It could>lead to a general trend of higher prices.>>I'm simply pointing out that a collective effort to inform the>developers of our price and quality concerns could lead to>better prices, better quality, and happier customers. A good>deal all 'round.exactly what high prices items are you disappointed with? the level-d 767? PMDG 737, 747?

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First of all, nobody forces you to purchase anything.Second, whether $50 is too much depends on the quality of the product. At least, for me. I don't have purchased the Wilco bus, but the deal isn't bad, in my opinion. You get 3 or 4 aircrafts, liveries will be free. If the quality is ok (system modeling, flight dynamics, panels, vc and if they got most things right), then the price isn't that bad. Not a bargain, but a reasonable deal.Just think about the value of such an addon. If it's a good one, it can provide you with dozens, maybe hundreds hours of enjoyment. What else do you get for $50?For certain products i would be willing to pay even more (e.g. for a really well done 1011).

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>FSers want the entire package without the entire price. for us>FSers 'long in the tooth' we remember the freeware golden era>of FS98. that time has now passed (there are still some>amazing freeware available, but not close to the quantity>there once was). The problem is that the standards are raising at Mach 3. Me personally, I can now make a very good FS98 plane in a DAY, or maximum TWO DAYS. The whole plane would take less polygons than a tire in a modern add-on! Now it takes ages to make a decent model. As for panels, the user demands for realism, deep system modeling, fluid-smooth gauges, eye-candy, extra features etc... Four years ago a default panel was OK, nobody complained. Now, one needs thousands of hours to develop an add-on. So much work, finally one asks himself: should I throw it all into the crowd or can I make a benefit on it? Very few of the add-on developers earn much money. The majority earn just enough to pay for the Internet connection and the coffee they drank during the nights of development.>i agree with you on this alex. there are full, 100%,>certified simulators available -- hope you have a few $million>laying around.Moreover, the MSFS add-ons get now so close to the reality that many training centers buy them and train pilots before they go on expensive $1000/hour industrial simulators. Do you realize the huge amount of money they save?

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"The developers need to keep prices reasonable."No they don' t! Like everyone else in business they need to set their prices so as to maximise their profits. If that means the price is more than you can afford then that's just tough.

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"No they don' t! Like everyone else in business they need to set their prices so as to maximise their profits. If that means the price is more than you can afford then that's just tough."Ah, thank you for the kind words. And yes, if it's more than I can aford, that is just too bad for me. Oh well.I think more than anything I am just testing the waters, again, as to people's opinions about add-on prices for FS9. I'm curious where their limits are and what they feel is a good price for a product and what is too expensive. I admit to still being surprised that many who post when I bring up this issue fully support all prices and all price increases without question and bash me for daring to question the gods of pricing. At times it seems like flightsim Macarthyism where even questioning add-on prices means you're a commie or something even worse."If you don't like it don't buy it!" Agreed, but does that mean we have no say, no feedback to give, no opinions to register? You would think the developers would want feedback from the buyers but most of the feedback I see is "Charge as much as you want! We'll complain later if it's not perfect."Obviously special products like the PMDG 747 might be worth the high price. But when "standard" products creep north of $30, the threat of more standard products creeping north of $40 emerges. My fear is that super-premium prices will become the norm faster than super-premium quality. Companies will price according to the market, but if the market prices are too high, and consumers don't speak up, prices will stay too high, products will be out of reach to many.I've spent over $500 upgrading FS9 with planes and scenery. Some add-ons were worth the price, others were not. But that $500, peanuts perhaps compared to what others have spent, makes me a serious flightsim consumer and I see no reason why serious consumers cannot register our opinions about add-on prices. God knows we register our opinions about everything else.

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Why would $50 be too high?I'd rather pay $150 for a very good package then $25 for a lousy one.Apart from that, we live in a free world. Every commercial enterprise is free to set its own prices.Just a matter of demand and supply.>> Proof of poochyness was the 125 meg patch they had to release for the 160 meg plane <> There are some buyers who insist, with great vehemence, that we have no right to question the prices of add-ons.<> We need a flightsim buyers union.<

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>> We need a flightsim buyers union.<<"Yeah right...... Success."Yeah, I know, I was just kidding.But when you think about it's not a completely stupid idea. Mostly stupid perhaps, but not completely.As it stands, the forums are our union, so to speak. Posts may reflect the same ideas but they are seldom, if ever, posted as a collective. Our collective opinions are registered vicariously through web site reviews, which the developers are all to happy to post on their site when positive, which they most often are. You don't often see a truly bad review. Perhaps this is because the add-ons are mostly good quality. Perhaps it's because the reviewers are nice guys and just don't want to blast people who made the effort to put out a good product. Flightsim-heads by nature, are the gentlemen of the PC game crowd.What does gives me faith is that finally the price of an add-on was tackled in the AVSIM review of the Aeroplane Heaven Tiger Moth. It's a great little plane, I'd love to have it, but as the reviewer said:"Do I like this add-on? Yes, it is a masterful piece of work and it is ideal for FS9 and will be really good in FSX if they can patch it to work better. With a price tag of $42.99 you really have to like Bi-Planes, but for me it was a must have part of my collection, I guess I am just funny that way. I don

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For me, I'm on a pretty limited budget for recreation type things, as I am at that stage in my life where I am getting out and setting up a life for myself. That makes it a big consideration as I am a pretty serious gamer. With prices reaching up around $50, it makes it really really hard for someone like me to justify buying an add-on because it costs as much as another entire game. I have to balance it out - Medieval II: Total War or another passenger liner for FSX.It's a rough call sometimes, and even with how much time I tend to put into flight simming, the comparison between how much I fly one plane against how much I'll play another really good game tends to fall on the side of other game.

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"A grain of salt" works in Canada too. ;-) A comparison I could offer would be the DO-27 and the Tiget Moth. The DO-27 is $24 and got great reviews. The Tiger Moth is $40 and got very good reviews. Is there a good reason why one is 60% more expensive than the other? Obviously they are not the same plane, but it's not just apples and oranges, it's fair to compare their details; graphics, sound, VCs, textures. Looking at the two of them side by side, it's fair to ask why one is 60% more than the other. If it's said to the company, "Hey guys, we love your stuff but we'd love it even more if the price came down ten bucks and came into line with other products of the same quality", it might have an impact. I agree some developers will be happy with low sales at higher prices, but it's a bad trend to see prices rise across the board because of this philosophy. I'm worried that FSX will breed new super-premium prices on all manner of products, where the majority of add-ons are north of $30 and frequently north of $40 or $50 dollars. That will price many right out of the game. And once prices rise like that they might just stay there.

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