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Guest Nealoc187

Are there any really good Regional Jet sims out there?

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I've been using the F1 ATR for several months now but I'm starting to get a little bored with it, so I'm wondering if there are any really good RJs available or in the works? I'm hoping for something along the lines of the Flight1 ATR in terms of sophistication, complexity, and quality. I've heard a bit about the FeelThere ERJ145 sim but have heard that it's a little lightweight compared to the F1 ATR - any opinions on that? Regional jets interest me because I want something a bit faster and higher flying than the ATR, but I don't really have any interest in super long enroute phases of flight (to me, enroute is boring - departure and arrival is where the excitement is) so I've been hesitant to pick up something like the LevelD 767 or the PMDG 747. I guess if there's nothing coming along soon that offers what I want in an RJ, I'll probably go with one of the 737 sims that are available.

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What about the MADDOG? I've got it and it is nice. Not sure if it qualifies for what your looking for.www.flythemaddog.comJimCYWG

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The Feelthere ERJ and CRJ's are about it when it comes to regional jets. I've got both, along with the ATR. While they aren't as good as the ATR (IMHO) they are fine. The gauges on the CRJ's could be better, but I think there are freeware replacments.Dave

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Digital Aviation claim to be in the process of developing a CRJ200www.digital-aviation.deIf it's as good as their Piper Cheyenne and Dornier 27, it will be very good indeed.However, have no idea when it might be released.

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Can I ask what you find boring about the ATR? I was thinking of picking it up, even though it's not a(n easily) 'profitable' airframe in FSEconomy. If it's nothing special, though, maybe not...

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>Can I ask what you find boring about the ATR? I was thinking>of picking it up, even though it's not a(n easily)>'profitable' airframe in FSEconomy. If it's nothing special,>though, maybe not...It's not the aircraft itself, I think the ATR is a marvelous add-on and I will continue using it. But for the last two months I've flown pretty much nothing else, and I just want to fly something else for a while just for a change of pace. I go through phases in my simming, at first it was GA aircraft (the aircraft I fly in real life, Cirrus SR20 and SR22, PA-28R, PA-34 and PA-44) then it was the ATR, then the Pilatus PC12, then back to the ATR, now I just want something different for a while.

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I totally get it. I could have written the original post! I LOVE the complexity of the ATR, but sometimes want a little quicker plane. I have the PIC ERJ-145. It is "OK". The graphics aren't as immersive as the ATR and isn't as procedurally complex. I fly for Delta VA and so many of their flights are now RJs. Now, I bit the bullet and paid the FAT price for the Maddog. Worth every penny. Or Euro. IT IS AWESOME. Level-D 767, ATR-72, Maddog. Very complex, hand flies well, graphically very immersive. I can use it on the long-short hops... ABQ-SLC, DEN-DFW, etc. Flights that are too long for the ATR, but not "long-hauls". I can't say enough about how I love the Maddog. Now you got me wanting to fly the ATR again. Love that sim. EddieKABQ

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I don't think of the MADDOG price as FAT even though you like it.Sorry.

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I guess $50+ is my threshold for fat. I remember when the 24.95 standard became the 39.95 standard. I paid 44.95 for the ATR so the Maddog is only about 8 bucks more. At any rate... it is worth every penny. I can't stop flying it. Eddie

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Also, Virtualcol claims to be in the process of developing an EMB-170/175/190/195. The pack will be named E-Jets Virtual. The model (I'm not sure about the FDE) is ready, the panel.... they haven't said anything yet.Check it here at http://www.virtualcol.com/ (sorry, Spanish only).Best regards from ColombiaLuis Miguel

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Digital Aviation is also working on a Fokker, which is already in Beta phase and shouldn

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Is this the same maddog as at flythemaddog.com? If so I am waiting for that one when the VC version is released. I am strictly a VC flyer, but i heard when they do release it that it will not be avail for FS9, and I barely touch my FSX.

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Acording to the front page "feelThere Goes Real World""Posted Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 2:42The Belgian Defense Force's 15th Wing Air Transport now uses the feelThere ERJ Pilot In Command for teaching their pilots flight deck preparations. This airplane is available for download at the feelThere website and on CD at the Wilco Publishing website."So, the systems must be pretty acurate if the airforce is using it as a teaching sim.Dave F.

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Why DA decided to do the Fokker70/100 instead of the CRJ is beyond my marketing aptitude. Project Fokker already has payware quality at freeware prices and the FeelThere CRJ is antiquated to say the least not complex at all and more like a FS2002 a/c.I own the CRJ,ERJ,F1Maddog,and MADDOG2006 and the MADDOG 2006 is excellent and in par with PMDG,DreemFllet,LDS quality.Andy

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>Why DA decided to do the Fokker70/100 instead of the CRJ is>beyond my marketing aptitude. Project Fokker already has>payware quality at freeware prices and the FeelThere CRJ is>antiquated to say the least not complex at all and more like a>FS2002 a/c.I own the CRJ,ERJ,F1Maddog,and MADDOG2006 and the>MADDOG 2006 is excellent and in par with PMDG,DreemFllet,LDS>quality.>>Andywell after extensive forum searching and google searching to learn as much as I could about the maddog, I ended up taking the plunge and purchasing the Maddog2006 by LeonardoSH about 8 hours ago @ $63 US... all I have to say is that it had better be awesome to justify paying like twice as much as any of my other add-ons lol. But from the reviews I've read of it (both published reviews and well thought out reviews by people on the forums) I think it will be. Now I've just got to read this manual. Being a real life pilot I'm a fan of procedural sims, so it should be fun if the reviews are to be trusted.

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I do not understand why the feelthere ERJ and CRJ get such low ratings from flightsimmers. I have several thousand hours driving real ERJs and I find the FT ERJ pretty adequate in simulating normal point A to point B flights on my PC and prepping for recurrent checkrides. Certainly, systems are not as deeply modelled as Level-D's 767, so you are not going to see what really happens with loss of DC2 or a bleed leak, but as far as normal, and even single engine flying goes, it is pretty much all there. As far as this "procedural complexity" goes as complained by somebody previously in this thread when compared to the ATR, the reason it is not precedurally complex like the ATR is because the actual ERJ is not as procedurally complex as the actual ATR. The steam gauge ATR was designed a generation before the ERJ. The ERJ is a 12'oclock dark plane. With the exception of the sterile cockpit light and fire test button, every switch, knob and lever that gets touched to bring the ERJ up from a cold and dark cockpit to takeoff is simulated in the FT ERJ. The displays are accurate with only a few detail inaccuracies. IMO, most importantly, the flight guidance systems, the FD and AP modelling, is accurate. You can fly the FT ERJ the same way you would fly a real ERJ. People laud things like the Aeroworx King Air, but from dowloading the manual and studying it before I was to buy it, you can plainly see that the flight guidance of that add-on is basic default MSFS AP/FD, which means you cannot even fly that aircraft like how you would in real life. But people just love it even as inaccurate as it is. I don't understand it. I've never flown the CRJ in real life, but it is the same as the ERJ with enough realism to get an immersive flight from A to B. One of my friends who used to fly the CRJ tried it out on my pc a few years back and was amazed at what he saw. Without even being a MSFS player, he was able to jump right in, fire it up and fly it on my computer. All I had to show him was how to bring up the different panels. That to me indicates a fairly accurate simulation. As for the FMC, it is accurate enough for point A-B but is not modelled enough for more complex tasks. The Legacy FMC though is expanded in capability compared to the original ERJ's. Overall, I'd say the ERJ/CRJ have about 80% overall accuracy and 70% for the FMC.

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An awful lot of money to pay for an aircraft without a VC view IMO.

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>An awful lot of money to pay for an aircraft without a VC>view IMO.I couldn't agree more.

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>I do not understand why the feelthere ERJ and CRJ get such>low ratings from flightsimmers. I have several thousand hours>driving real ERJs and I find the FT ERJ pretty adequate in>simulating normal point A to point B flights on my PC and>prepping for recurrent checkrides. Certainly, systems are not>as deeply modelled as Level-D's 767, so you are not going to>see what really happens with loss of DC2 or a bleed leak, but>as far as normal, and even single engine flying goes, it is>pretty much all there. As far as this "procedural complexity">goes as complained by somebody previously in this thread when>compared to the ATR, the reason it is not precedurally complex>like the ATR is because the actual ERJ is not as procedurally>complex as the actual ATR. The steam gauge ATR was designed a>generation before the ERJ. The ERJ is a 12'oclock dark plane.> With the exception of the sterile cockpit light and fire test>button, every switch, knob and lever that gets touched to>bring the ERJ up from a cold and dark cockpit to takeoff is>simulated in the FT ERJ. The displays are accurate with only>a few detail inaccuracies. IMO, most importantly, the flight>guidance systems, the FD and AP modelling, is accurate. You>can fly the FT ERJ the same way you would fly a real ERJ. >People laud things like the Aeroworx King Air, but from>dowloading the manual and studying it before I was to buy it,>you can plainly see that the flight guidance of that add-on is>basic default MSFS AP/FD, which means you cannot even fly that>aircraft like how you would in real life. But people just>love it even as inaccurate as it is. I don't understand it. >I've never flown the CRJ in real life, but it is the same as>the ERJ with enough realism to get an immersive flight from A>to B. One of my friends who used to fly the CRJ tried it out>on my pc a few years back and was amazed at what he saw. >Without even being a MSFS player, he was able to jump right>in, fire it up and fly it on my computer. All I had to show>him was how to bring up the different panels. That to me>indicates a fairly accurate simulation. As for the FMC, it is>accurate enough for point A-B but is not modelled enough for>more complex tasks. The Legacy FMC though is expanded in>capability compared to the original ERJ's. Overall, I'd say>the ERJ/CRJ have about 80% overall accuracy and 70% for the>FMC.very interesting point of view, I wish i'd read it before I spent more than twice the price on the maddog2006. ah well, live and learn. who do you fly ERJs for? I'm going to be taking a CRJ training course in the next 6 months or so.

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>>An awful lot of money to pay for an aircraft without a VC>>view IMO.>>I couldn't agree more.I think it is too, but after the reviews I read of it I decided to give it a shot. I am new to flight simming, only been doing it since around Feb or March of this year. I am starting to get more in the habit of using the VC even though at first it was awkward to me - so I'm a little worried about it - I currently do probably 85% of my flying from the VC. For the Maddog2006 the VC is said to be forthcoming, and the reviews I read of the plane included many simmers who said they too were primarily VC pilots in their ATRs and LevelDs and PMDGs, and they still feel that the maddog was worth the pricetag even without the VC because it is just so good.Just for reference, I only paid heed to those reviews by people who could formulate a coherent sentence or paragraph in which to describe the plane. I ignored the thoughts of those who had reviews that said something like 'OMG teh MaDdoGG iz soooo kewl - it iz teh awesomEst.' I wasn't interested in the thoughts of those types...After I've got some experience in the new plane, I'll report back with my thoughts.

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>Just for reference, I only paid heed to those reviews by>people who could formulate a coherent sentence or paragraph in>which to describe the plane. I ignored the thoughts of those>who had reviews that said something like 'OMG teh MaDdoGG iz>soooo kewl - it iz teh awesomEst.' I wasn't interested in the>thoughts of those types...You may be new to Flightsim but it is obvious from the above that you are a wise man. Basing you purchase decisions on the above criteria and waiting to read a few reviews should ensure that you only buy the best products from the best people. The same policy has served me very well. I hope you find a product you enjoy :-)Best regards!

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KevinAu,Thanks for the review of the ERJ. Most informative. Been flying for a living 30+ years and I still enjoy msfs. One of the nice things about these addon aircraft is a chance to experience one that it's unlikely I'll get my hands on in real life. Used to go to Indy for Saab340 sim recurrent training.....took an RJ to KORD then the ERJ for the final leg and the ERJ from a passengers' perspective was a really nice experience(compared to the RJ). Looking in the cockpit when boarding the ERJ looked like a nice place to work. And all in all it's a very good looking sircraft. Glad the FeelThere version meets with your approval. I may get it. Dave

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I flew pointy nose fighters (F-15s) for 15yrs in the USAF so anything with a yoke freaks me out anyway--that said, you can try Posky CRJ 200 (freeware) and marry it up with a CRJ SkyDeck panel ($14ish)...lacks FMC bells/whistles but out models IMO the Feelthere CRJ.I like the MD 2006 idea of a right seat (FO) position...think more higher end payware ought to give you that option...CheersKemoF15

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