both of these look good, does anyone have both?which do you recomend and why?thanksciao!Brian S

I have both and feel the Citation X has the edge because it is a newer version and includes vertical profile. However, I would suggest you wait for the Eagle Soft Citation X. Wilco and Feelthere have an "Punch and Judy" show going with support. Feelthere will direct your technical issues to Wilco. Wilco's direct support stinks as it is via a stupid and cumbersome form. The only way to get them (Feelthere and Wilco) to provide competitive and responsive customer service is to not buy their products. Here is a recent thread:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=413764&page=Do a search and you will find more.Bob...

>Citation X has the edge because it is a newer >version and includes vertical profile.it is true that the FMC software in the CX is newer and has more functions that the ERJ or Legacy simulations.>and includes vertical profile.both the ERJ and Legacy provide vertical profile information ... and like the REAL aircraft the information is only advisory (there is no link between the FMC's computed altitude profile and the autopilot; the pilot is required to following the recommend descent/climb). the CX simulation has VNAV control of the autopilot by the FMC -- like the real aircraft.look at the following forums (ALL open) for information -LEGACY - http://www.iemit.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=17ERJ 145 - http://www.iemit.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3'Forum to talk about how to fly feelThere airplanes' that contains LOTS of information on the CX (and all other FT developed aircraft) - http://www.iemit.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=27(all the above have questions by, and answers give to, a 'bobp'.)--

Be aware, Scoob is not a neutral, he used to be a moderator on the Feelthere forums before they shut them. He is now a moderator for the unofficial Feelthere Forums, the one he has linked to above.As for the Citation x, feelthere never had and never will open a forum for it, they tell you to go to Wilco, Wilco have a very very bad reputation for all things FS.I have bought many Feelthere products, but no more as they have shut all contact with the paying customers.I would also wait for the Eaglesoft Citation as they will support it.Garry

i have the ft erj and i really like it but i didn't know that eaglesoft was working on ver 2 of there cit x - so i think i will wait for that..thanksciao!Brian S

The problem with Eaglesoft is that their autopilot and FD only uses basic default microsoft autopilot logic. Unless they drastically revamp the version 2 of their Citation X, you will not get the actual autopilot modes that are used to fly the real aircraft. The Feelthere's modelling of the Honeywell Primus systems includes the correct pitch for speed modes of the autopilot and flight director. I would wait and see if Eaglesoft's new Citation X includes correctly functioning avionics before I decide.

Scoob,Have you actually used Wilco's support form? I stated elsewhere I have filled out job applications requiring less information. I don't have time to waste reporting problems that Wilco is aware of, but will not disclose to customers via FAQ's or a forum. Here is the only reference posted in the LOCKED Citation X support forum:Dear Folks,Please send the bugs to the Wilco support form at http://www.wilcopub.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=support_form We are receiving those reports and working by using ONLY them. Reports posted here may be missed by the team. This forum is for discussing non software related techical issues.Thank youHow do I know if the problem has been reported? If Feelthere is providing support for the Citation X then they should state that and not play this silly "wink wink" post you problems here in the non-technical non support forum. It is too easy for Feelthere to pick and choose which questions to field, when to pass the buck or just delete it. I state again I will not purchase any additional Feelthere/Wilco products until Feelthere takes full responsibility for their product support and realizes the Wilco's support is unaccceptable. Feelthere's agreement or desire to pass off customer technical questions/problems to Wilco is an embarrassment to Feelthere. Thanks.Bob..

>The problem with Eaglesoft is that their autopilot and FD>only uses basic default microsoft autopilot logic. Unless>they drastically revamp the version 2 of their Citation X, you>will not get the actual autopilot modes that are used to fly>the real aircraft. The Feelthere's modelling of the Honeywell>Primus systems includes the correct pitch for speed modes of>the autopilot and flight director. I would wait and see if>Eaglesoft's new Citation X includes correctly functioning>avionics before I decide.Why not take a look at the feature list for CX2.0 instead of wondering:-)http://www.eaglesoftdg.com/CitationX_20.htmPlease understand that our CX1.0 is over 4 years old and was a limited product at the time of release. Our CX2.0 is a fully featured product which will be fully supported using actual forums where folks can get actual answers:-)

Thanks, I did look at that page beforehand but it didn't seem to address this specifically. (The word "accurate" can mean a wide range of things in the FS world) But from your smilies, I think I can take it that Eaglesoft is leaving the default autopilot behind and programming it yourself with "accurate" functions? If that is the case then that would be good news.

>Thanks, I did look at that page beforehand but it didn't seem>to address this specifically. (The word "accurate" can mean a>wide range of things in the FS world) But from your smilies,>I think I can take it that Eaglesoft is leaving the default>autopilot behind and programming it yourself with "accurate">functions? If that is the case then that would be good news.Let's just say that the term accurate with regard to CX2.0 Honeywell Primus 2000 systems and Autopilot Flight Director with FADEC Throttle and LNAV/VNAV with Vertical Profile is not hyberbole:-)As far as we know, there is nothing in our description that would cause anyone to think that we are "blowing sunshine" when it comes to our CX2.0.Hope this helps:-)

>The problem with Eaglesoft is that their autopilot and FD>only uses basic default microsoft autopilot logic. Unless>they drastically revamp the version 2 of their Citation X, you>will not get the actual autopilot modes that are used to fly>the real aircraft. The Feelthere's modelling of the Honeywell>Primus systems includes the correct pitch for speed modes of>the autopilot and flight director. I would wait and see if>Eaglesoft's new Citation X includes correctly functioning>avionics before I decide.The next release for Eaglesoft's Citation X (V2) will have full VNAV/FLC support complete with FADEC throttle control.

I've got the feelthere C-X and am happy with it. Had a chance to get into the cockpit of a real C-X and talk with the pilots. I think feelthere has done a good job. Dave