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Guest knasen86

best route program

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Hi everyone, I am currently using v-route to take out my routes I want to fly, but I am not fully satisfied with it, 1 if 2 routes work, short of routes sometimes, like yesterday, I wanted to fly to Acapulco, but couldn't find any routes, so any suggestion?, would be good if the program also could export the fligtplan so I just have to load it the fmc after.

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>There are a number of places to find real flightplans. I use>either Flightaware http://flightaware.com/analysis/route.rvt>or Routefinder http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/>>Dave F.I forgot Simroutes http://www.simroutes.com/For European routes you can use this site http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/These sites will give you routes using Airways so you can quickly input your route into your FMC RTE Page.I also suggest you get a flightplanner like FSNav.Dave

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This is great info, I never knew about simroute.but, how do you know which SID / STAR to use.for example, a flight from EGLL to EHAM just shows a BPK dep, so how do you know which BPK SID to use, as there are quite a few.Thanks.

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>but, how do you know which SID / STAR to use.>for example, a flight from EGLL to EHAM just shows a BPK dep,>so how do you know which BPK SID to use, as there are quite a>few.The SID is tied to the departure runway.For example (in this case):BPK4K is for 09LBPK5J is for 09RBPK6G is for 27LBPK6F is for 27RBest regards,Rafal

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>It is already been mentioned, but Routefinder works perfectly>for me.>http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/>I haven't found anything out there that generates any better>routes (...)I double that. Especially that it takes updated AIRACS into consideration (plus NATS, of course).Although I like making flightplans myself (with FSNav as the map background), I sometimes use RouteFinder and find it very good.Highly recommended!Best regards,Rafal

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I use FlightAware to see actual routes recently used since I do all my flying in the USA. If nothing appropriate shows on flightaware then I'll try routefinder or make one myself using skyvector and naco charts/plates. then I load it as flightplan for the game using fsbuild.sids and stars can be tied to a specific runway but just as often, if not more often, are tied to a general direction of flight. sometimes they are dependent upon the type of aircraft and the equipment on the aircraft as well (RNAV or normal) and some are restricted to jets, turboprops, or both.

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Route finder is not very realistic at times - if realism is what you want.For example, in the UK it will use the BIGGIN SID for departures from Gatwick (EGKK). However this SID is "For aircraft landing at LONDON HEATHROW or NORTHOLT only."To Edinburgh (EGPH), Routefinder gives:EGKK SID BIG UT420 WELIN UN57 POL UN601 MARGO STAR EGPHwhereas the real lifr route is:EGKK LAM L10 BPK (U)N601 MARGOT TWEEDIE1A EGPHFor UK routes go to:http://www.ais.org.uk/You have to register but it's free.Look for SRD (Standard Route Document) under publications. This gives the preferred routing between airports in the UK and between airports and waypoints denoting exit points from UK airspace. It's updated with every AIRAC cycle.The routes are "preferred" routes for ATC purposes to maximise capacity. Pilots can ask for an alternative. However, because of capacity constraints I suspect a pilot who asked for an alternative might have to wait a while before being given it.Does anyone know if there are similar documents for other countries airspace?

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>Route finder is not very realistic at times - if realism is>what you want.>>For example, in the UK it will use the BIGGIN SID for>departures from Gatwick (EGKK). However this SID is "For>aircraft landing at LONDON HEATHROW or NORTHOLT only.">>To Edinburgh (EGPH), Routefinder gives:>>EGKK SID BIG UT420 WELIN UN57 POL UN601 MARGO STAR EGPH>>whereas the real lifr route is:>>EGKK LAM L10 BPK (U)N601 MARGOT TWEEDIE1A EGPH>>For UK routes go to:>>http://www.ais.org.uk/>>You have to register but it's free.>>Look for SRD (Standard Route Document) under publications.>This gives the preferred routing between airports in the UK>and between airports and waypoints denoting exit points from>UK airspace. It's updated with every AIRAC cycle.>>The routes are "preferred" routes for ATC purposes to maximise>capacity. Pilots can ask for an alternative. However, because>of capacity constraints I suspect a pilot who asked for an>alternative might have to wait a while before being given it.>>Does anyone know if there are similar documents for other>countries airspace? >>>here is the preferred route database for the US.http://www.fly.faa.gov/Products/Coded_Depa...s_database.html

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Obviously finding real world preferred routes and/or planning the route yourself is the most realistic. Routefinder is a great alternative for the simmer. No, it won't go and factor in all the details of every airport, but it makes a very reasonable route. Most route generators will either ignore sids/stars or possibly throw you into the side of a mountain. They also like to send you hundreds of miles in the wrong direction, etc.

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thx for all replays, I have tested a couple of yours tips, are going to test fs navigator now, btw, anyone knows how to convert the exported fligtplans from v-route so I just have to drop it in the folder and start the game and load?

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You can download FSNavigator but cannot buy it anymore. You get 20 sessions then no more.JimCYWG

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>You can download FSNavigator but cannot buy it anymore. You>get 20 sessions then no more.>>Jim>CYWGWhy did they stop sell it?Dave F.

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Hi.in relation to my earlier comments on how do we know which SID or STAR to use on a flight plan, I am still concerned and confused.for example, if I use either FS Nav or Routefinder etc, they say a BPK dep, but I don't know which BPK SID to select on the FMC, as it lists about 7 of them, so, how do you know which one to use guy's.The same goes for the arrival STAR.any help would be very much appreciated on this.

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>Hi.>>in relation to my earlier comments on how do we know which SID>or STAR to use on a flight plan, I am still concerned and>confused.>>for example, if I use either FS Nav or Routefinder etc, they>say a BPK dep, but I don't know which BPK SID to select on the>FMC, as it lists about 7 of them, so, how do you know which>one to use guy's.>>The same goes for the arrival STAR.>>any help would be very much appreciated on this.I don't know how it is with other countries, but for the USA the difference is the transition for that arrival (or departure).For instance take a look at bradford five BDF5 arrival into chicago o'hare.http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0801/00166BRADFORD.PDFhttp://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0801/00166BRADFORD_C.PDFThere are 4 different transitions for that arrival - BAYLI intersection, FTZ vortac, IRK vortac, and STL vortac. All of those would be listed in an FMC and you would want to choose whichever was appropriate to your route of flight. They would be listed as BAYLI.BFD5, FTZ.BFD5, IRK.BFD5, and STL.BFD5.Is that what you were referring to?

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You need to check the actual charts in both cases.The SID is determined by the departure runway you're using:BPK 6F - 27RBPK 6G - 27LBPK 6H - 23BPK 5J - 09RBPK 4K - 09LThe STAR is determined by the airway you're using as shown on the charts. For example if you're approaching Heathrow from the north on Airways L10 or N615 then you use Bovingdon STAR BNN 3A. If you're on A47 then you use BNN 1C. These remarks apply to the UK. I've no doubt that there are differences in other countries. Also, ATC can overide them at its discretion.

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Good question. In Europe, the departures and arrivals are associated with a runway. ATC controllers are more involved in assigning terminal procedures than their US counterparts. In the US, one requests the terminal procedure based on the direction of flight. In other words, it is part of the flight plan submitted for clearance. I'm sure there are advantages and disadvantages to either approach. I enjoy the variety which help more in the immersion. If what I stated above is incorrect, please jump in with the correct information so we can all learn. Regards,Dave Vega

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"In Europe, the departures and arrivals are associated with a runway."That's not quite right. In the UK STARS are associated with an airway. The airway being flown determines the STAR. UK STARS terminatate at a waypoint associated with a hold. Aircraft can approach any runway from that hold so the runway in use doesn't affect the choce of STAR. It's determined by the airway. Going back to my example, BNN 3A and BNN 1C terminate at the Bovingdon VOR BNN, as do BNN 1C and BNN 1D. Aircraft are normally radar vectored from the hold onto the centre line of the approach to the runway in use. There are published charts giving Initial Approches Procedures to do the same thing when radar vectoring isn't available.

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>Dave, nobody really seems to know why. Over at >>http://forums.simflight.com/>>there is an FANavigator forum about half way down. Lots on it>there but no real answer.>Jim>CYWGThat's disheartening, don't know what i'd do without it.dave

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>>but, how do you know which SID / STAR to use.>>for example, a flight from EGLL to EHAM just shows a BPK dep,>>so how do you know which BPK SID to use, as there are quite a>>few.>The SID is tied to the departure runway.>For example (in this case):>BPK4K is for 09L>BPK5J is for 09R>BPK6G is for 27L>BPK6F is for 27RBut how do you know which runway you will be allocated until the very last moment before departure? It will be determined by weather.Barry

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Runways are determined by ATC.Runways are rarely changed at the very last minute. When it's necessary it takes quite a time to deal with ariving aircraft and re-route them and to issue revised instructiondss to aircraft on the ground. Heathrow (EGLL) will continue to operate with upto a 5kt tailwinds in dry conditions before changing runway direction.When it does happen in the real world pilots will just have to change their flight plans.

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