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Guest dpiedrahita

The best long-haul A/C

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I'm looking for a nice long-haul aircraft for FS9 and would like some feedback from you all. Here is what I currently own and my thoughts:PSS 777: I "lost" my 777 in their collapse months ago when I reinstalled FS9; even using the backup procedures outlined in the PSS forum below I can't get it to work, but frankly I don't much care because I thought it was a bit of a half-done work. The flight model seemed terrible, the FMC lacked some funcionality, and it was hard on frames. Perhaps I got a bad install and I've considered getting it from JF, but can't bring myself to do it.Level-D: Hands down without question this is THE best aircraft available for FS9. It's just not used on some really long or higher volume routes.RFP: Fantastic aircraft but range limited.Unless I'm missing something that leaves either the PMDG 744 or the Wilco Abus V2. Since I've got no interest in paying what PMDG wants, I guess I'm stuck considering Wilco. I could get the entire Vol 2 which includes FS9 and FSX models and the FS2Crew package for what I'd pay for just the passenger version of the FS9 PMDG 744. I'm held back by the feedback I hear about the plane(s). It's either bad (customer service or buggy plane) or a "yeah, but" type of mediocre feedback. Is there somewhere I can read about these "bugs" that seem to plague the A/C? I'd like to first know what they are and then make my own informed decision on whether they'd bother me or not. Maybe this is a "should I buy the Wilco Vol 2" thread, but I'd really like your feedback on if I'm missing something or if I should reconsider. Maybe PMDG needs to lower their price... Thanks all and happy simming!

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I understand the price scaring people away, but the PMDG 747 really is without equal. While the Level-D 767-300 does give it a lot of competition, I think you'll find the argument favors the PMDG 747 as the best FS9 aircraft. Minus the ACARS uplinks through the FMC, the entire thing is really fully functional. The flight dynamics are so dead on that you if you can get a real world flight status log and load up active sky weather for the same date/time, you'll end up hitting the same points essentially minute by minute. The visual models are stunning and the list goes on.I can't speak for the Wilco Scarebus V2, but the A320 series does not have what the PMDG 747 does. The graphics are subpar and the systems modeling doesn't even come close. Perhaps some of this has been improved for V2.I know your original post has kind of already said that you won't by the PMDG 747, but I would seriously reconsider. It is truly without equal. As another note, I bought my copy of the 747 6 months ago or so, so maybe the price is no longer valid--but I found the DVD version online for about $40. On the expensive side certainly, but far from completely unreasonable. I know on the PMDG website it is something on the order of $70-90 which is quickly running away.With all that said, the 767 is actually used on quite a few transatlantic routes. Not sure how long your idea of a long haul is, but this might get you there.

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Hmm, maybe I need a better memory, Ed. Going from memory I thought the 747-200 was like 5200nm. I ought to do a couple moreI just did EWR-Mumbai India last week. I'd consider that a long haul and would look for something with a range greater than 7000nm. From what I understand the 744 is about 7700. You're certainly right that the 767 is used on transatlantic routes, and I was actually going to say I wanted something like a JFK to Heathrow until I looked up the flights and saw that Delta flies a 763 on that route! If you still remember where you got the PMDG 744 for $40 US I'll buy it in a heartbeat at that price!

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Get an SR-71 Blackbird (there are a few out there), you can fly far and fast. or a Concord (also at least 2 companies make them).Or Alpha Sims C-5,these are all very affordable,But ultimately get the PMDG 747-

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The Leveld 767 model which is -ER has as a typical route Los Angeles to Frankfurt which is transcontinental plus transatlantic and costs less than the PMDG 747.I don't know how much of a long haul you're looking for.I have the Leveld 767,the PMDG 747-400 and 400F as well as the PSS-777 and love them all.Personally, I tend to enjoy take offs and landings more than extended trips although I have done some but usually leave the aircraft on autopilot and the computer "unattended" for some time. I usually like to set up the relevant aircraft with a max. gross weight and enjoy landing with a max. landing weight and possibly nasty weather with crosswinds to challenge my skills, but to each his own.I hope you can find an aircraft you like and can afford. Certainly the US dollar versus the Euro has taken a beating in recent times, so you have to look out for bargains.Too bad you lost the PSS-777. I'm not sure what Just Flight charges for it. Good luck!!Ron

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What about the freeware IFly 744 available here on Avsim? Just grab service pack 3, it includes 1 and two... I also grabbed the sid/stars and repaints package, and I'm happy.The Ifly 747 may not be up to the level of the PMDG, but a lot more systems are modeled than the default; it has a fully functional VC and a 300 page manual.If the PMDG FSX 744 was compatible with Shared Cockpit I would buy it in a heartbeat. The Ifly isn't compatible with shared cockpit either, but the price is terrific!!!:-)Best Regards, Donald T. :-wave

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>I understand the price scaring people away, but the PMDG 747>really is without equal. While the Level-D 767-300 does give>it a lot of competition, I think you'll find the argument>favors the PMDG 747 as the best FS9 aircraft. Now hang on just one moment there, just hang on :-jumpy I've always found the opposite to be true, and if hard pressed to choose I'm in that camp, the 767 is otherworldly as a package.regards,Mark

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It's like saying which is better, A Lamborghini or Ferrari. For me the LVLD is slightly better due to being more home cockpit friendly. Both are 100% on systems the PMDG 747 VC is visualy a lot better but thats due to the LVLD being older (I think?)Rob

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Well I think the back and forth debate of PMDG 747 vs. LDS 767 could go on for hours, but for me what really sets it apart is the cost. It's not a matter of being ABLE to afford it, but rather CHOOSING to afford it. To fly the PMDG in both FS9 and FSX for the passenger versions only it's $179.41. The -400F for FS9 would bump that up to $226 and some change. The Level-D to fly in FS9 and FSX is $55. That's a difference of $124.41! Can ANYONE REEEAALLLY tell me that the PMDG is worth that kind of money?... This is off of PMDGs website. Now to be fair, I noticed you can get the QOS from Aerosoft for $60, but that is STILL only the FS9 passenger version and I'm not sure if it's the most updated one.Can anyone else contribute some thoughts on the Wilco Airbus Vol. 2? What are these bugs? What does the FMC lack in modeling compared to the PMDG or Level-D? I do appreciate the thoughts from all of you!

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>>Now hang on just one moment there, just hang on :-jumpy I've>always found the opposite to be true, and if hard pressed to>choose I'm in that camp, the 767 is otherworldly as a>package.>>regards,>MarkI do agree it's a very close competition. Whatever does set the LDS and the PMDG apart is small. I've generally just found the consensus to be that the PMDG has a slight edge.Personally though I fly the LDS more if for no other reason that I like it's routes more. Truth is 4-5 hours of cruise is getting a bit long to me, but the 8-12+ hours typical of a 747 route is just too long for me to do on a regular basis.

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'Can ANYONE REEEAALLLY tell me that the PMDG is worth that kind of money?' 100% I spend $200 in a few hours drinking in Central London with my mates every Friday and Saturday. This Aircraft has been on my drive for years and I'm still learning. We could go on for days about what the 767 and 747 have compared to Wilco. The Wilco bus cant even predict fuel or arrival times properly and that should be a basic thing to model. I even Beta tested the wilco A330 I'm not going to get started on that.Rob

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I'm happy to haul cargo with the PMDG 747-400F on 2-3 hour routes which is not uncommon in real world. Personally I prefer the 747-400 since it has far better VC and I have more EICAS pages to fiddle around with. :) Both airplanes are fantastic add-ons that no serious flight simmer should be without.

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I meant to say the IFly has a fully functional FMC... but the VC is nice too!:-)Best Regards, Donald T. :-wave

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I'd also vote for the RFP 747-200. One of those rare Addons, that never get old. Can be easily merged with the beautiful POSKY 742 and yes, one really has something to do with feeding INS and the fuel management.PMDG 744 ? No way for me. The FS9 version is expensive enough and one has to buy the FSX version just to also get the best FS9 version. Quite ugly couple deal. They claim one doesn't need the latest FS9 version, but who doesn't need fps improvements, AP/FMC refinements and other stuff ?Mike

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>Can ANYONE REEEAALLLY tell me that the PMDG is worth that kind of >money?' 100% I spend $200 in a few hours drinking in Central London >with my mates every Friday and Saturday. This Aircraft has been on my >drive for years and I'm still learning.I fail to see the connection. Let's compare apples to apples or else by that very same logic I could tell you about how I spent *thousands* on a two week vacation that's over now but this or that addon is still on my drive...Better consider MSFS or any other computer game. How much work goes into it, how much it requires in terms of coding, graphic rendering , artistic input etc. Now, Compare THIS to an FS addon and the prices one is asked to pay for either.On the other hand, as long as simmers keep "proudly supporting" overpriced addons, why on earth should their publishers even consider a more realistic pricing policy??

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My point a couple of hundred dollars for a almost infinite amount of enjoyment is worth it if you can afford it. I'm getting sick of people #### about addons being too expensive.. fair enough If I pay top dollar for a peice of crap I get angry... If it's good quality I'm happy. I have spent over a $1000 on a Real Level D sim I also pay over 100 uk pounds an hour on my PPL in the UK should I write to these people and complain. If your not happy dont buy it!A lot of people may disagree but I think these Top end companies are under charging and thats why we have to wait 3-4 years for a good quality aircraft to come along.. while these other companys release buggy software twice a year at a slightly reduced rate and everyone gets there credit cards out supporting this rubbish then complains when it doesn't do what it says on the tin. Rob

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I fully understand people questioning the price issue regarding the PMDG It is after all a lot of money.The same could be said about AES and the amount of credits you have to buy,but we buy them all the same to add to the realismPersonally Flightsimming has become a real hobby for me over the last twelve months and so I dont mind paying the prices involved for something that takes up 50% of my spare time .But if i were only to fly a few hours a month then i would most likley be looking at the RFP Posky merge for a way to enjoy 'long Haul' or as others have mentioned the IFly 747.One can spend hundreds or nothing as long as the product is good the enjoyment is there to be had Just me waffling!!Mark

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The issue isn't really the vendors. They are out there to increase their profits and indeed why shouldn't they?The issue is the so-called community that's eager to purchase addons regardless of their price and yes, many times quality.By supporting an addon you are not only voting for its quality but also for its price. Don't be surprised if the next high-end addon will set yet another record in terms of its price. Hey, after all, what's another weekends-worth of pints with the lads...It's also a question of where you want to see this "industry" going. As long as people pay ridiculous prices for a COMPUTER GAME EXPANSION PACK, what will stop those prices from becoming even more ridiculous?

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Well I'm happy to see I've sparked some thoughtful debate!Let me address a few points:1. Wilco seems to be off the table. Not being able to predict arrival times would be an annoyance for me and I think considering it seems to be marketed as a more advanced aircraft those features should be included. Thanks to riprest for getting that straight. Where is D Scobie when you need him? Doesn't he know about this? 2. I got real excited about the iFly when I first found out about it and really liked the panel, but couldn't get the systems to work right (mainly trim) and got fed up and wrote it off. I also think the model is pretty bad. I'd consider merging it with the Posky 744 -I'm assuming that's a well-regarded model since pretty much all of their stuff seems to be- but if the panel doesn't work what's the point?3. I don't necessarily argue that there may be some differences in the Level-D vs. PMDG, but I don't know that to me the little extras that may be present in PMDG are worth the large difference in price. The FSX version seems to be a better value seeing as it's a more current platform and a completely rebuilt model, but I can't see going to FSX yet because I'm too spoiled by the add-on sceneries available for FS9. I had FSX for a while but and liked it but preferred to wait for better availability of add-on sceneries.4. I don't complain about the price after I buy something. If I think it's too much I won't buy it in the first place and that is all I can do to help control pricing. I think a lot of you guys have brought up nice points about pricing and people's buying habits, but in the end we can only control what we do no matter how stupid or disagreeable what other people do may seem.5. The way I stand I think it's either convince myself the PMDG is worth the price or stick with what I've got since none of the other options seem that good.

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'As long as people pay ridiculous prices for a COMPUTER GAME EXPANSION PACK' ha5mvo If it bugs you that much why dont you pack your XBOX away and find yourself another hobby?I am under no illusion that any of these 'expansion packs' will teach me to hand fly a real heavy aircraft into KLAX in a 25 knot crosswind. However if you can tell me where I can get my hands on a FULL systems simulation of a 747-400 Including full tutorials, Abnormal procedures,full system modeling and documentation, perfomance tables etc etc. for under $100 Pleases point me in the right direction... till then I will stick with what I have.OP did you try the RFP 747? That aircraft is part of my top addons the VC is very old but the systems are up there with the best, and the steep learning curve will stop you from getting bored... best of all the price is very good :)Cheers

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Rob,I have no argument with you. If you're happy to pay those prices and feel that it's rain that's falling then so be it.Btw, if you are into systems modelling try the PS1.3 - granted it does not have all the graphic hoo-ha but it's on an entirely different level, just to put things in perspective..In the meantime, I'll keep supporting freeware developers - it's them, not the vendors who are at the core of this hobby.

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What about the PSS Airbus series? I thought that was supposed to be pretty good and seems to have a good write-up here on Avsim from what I recall. JustFlight has it for $50, but it's got to be available from some other places for cheaper than that. The package is ancient...

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I'm going to go ahead and reply to myself here...I was just going back and looking at the Wilco review here on AVSIM. I was reading about the MCDU, which I thought would be great until I got to this quite:"But how real is real or

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