Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest Nikola

Md-11 Fuel Calculation Charts?

Recommended Posts

Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Nikola: Please sign your name on the messages.Do you mean fuel planning charts like the 747? Don't have'em in the FSX and won't have them in the FS9 version either. Has something to do with missing performance charts due to license restrictions or some legalese that I don't understand at all.The good news is that the FMS is very good at estimating fuel requirements, at quite versatile. I start with a notional amount, enter my flight plan then go to Init pg 2 and see how much excess or missing then adjust with the pmdg menus fuel option. Once I have a 45 min reserve (or whatever reserve I deem necessary) then I'm set. The hard part is windage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you used a flight plan builder like FSBuild, you can load the route into AS6.5 or ASA and get the wind est. from there. ASA is nice because it gives you the average wind and temperature for your route. You just feed that information into your INIT pg 1 at the bottom and it gives you very good estimates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I see, but it's not the way I like or doing...Going to find some real charts :) Tank you for answers...Nikola Jovanovic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there any fuel planning data available in the printed manuals?
the subject of fuel planning has been extensively discussed during MD-11/FSX release, it is very easy to find those posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the subject of fuel planning has been extensively discussed during MD-11/FSX release, it is very easy to find these posts.
Michael is right, you can search for old posts.However, allow me one final note:Whatever you do you will never find any fuel planner or charts that can give you more accurate fuel predictions than the FMS. The reason is obvious: The FMS calculates fuel in full detail using the specific PMDG MD-11 data and procedures for the loaded flightplan (speed per flight phase and altitude/temperature/wind conditions, flight plan restrictions, possible step climb segments, descent path segments, etc.). Flight planners and fuel charts use approximate fuel rates instead. And the FMS WEIGHT INIT page provides the flexibility to test different fuel loads before engine start (BLOCK FUEL entry) see the results and decide how much fuel you need to load.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Michael is right, you can search for old posts.However, allow me one final note:Whatever you do you will never find any fuel planner or charts that can give you more accurate fuel predictions than the FMS. The reason is obvious: The FMS calculates fuel in full detail using the specific PMDG MD-11 data and procedures for the loaded flightplan (speed per flight phase and altitude/temperature/wind conditions, flight plan restrictions, possible step climb segments, descent path segments, etc.). Flight planners and fuel charts use approximate fuel rates instead. And the FMS WEIGHT INIT page provides the flexibility to test different fuel loads before engine start (BLOCK FUEL entry) see the results and decide how much fuel you need to load.
Yea, all that is good, but I like to take pen and paper and to manualy calculate it...Then satisfaction is bigger when on the end of flight find out that you are wrong for less then 1 ton :DHow it's work in RL, is there FMS load calculator??Nikola Jovanovic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How it's work in RL,
In RL they have dispatchers who use very sophisticated (and expensive) flight planning software that does it all for them... such software is for example capable of computing the "least fuel route" or use other constraints, but even then captains may decide to make final adjustments in the amount of fuel carried.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In RL they have dispatchers who use very sophisticated (and expensive) flight planning software that does it all for them... such software is for example capable of computing the "least fuel route" or use other constraints, but even then captains may decide to make final adjustments in the amount of fuel carried.
Yea, captain have final word on fuel calc :) ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The FMC is like all computers - rubbish in, rubbish out!There's nothing like a printed fuel planning table, as a certain Hapag Lloyd A310 crew found out...Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I undedrstand how to use the FMC for fuel calcs but just to be sure can someone in the know post an example using a flight plan and the load edit and what you have to do in th FMC? A walk-through on how to calculate fuel for any given route. Maybe make a sticky topic as it might be useful with the lack of fuel planner and charts? I want to do some long-hauls but don't want to mess the fuel calcs up and run out of fuel! :( Andy S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MD-11 fuel plannerthis may helpGavin
Gavin, Interesting tool, I do have a few questions for you. Why was it designed so you can not read the full aircraft names? Why was it designed to not account for the wind speed and direction as well as the altitude that you plan to fly at? When I compare the results from this tool which does not account for these pieces of information I find that it is under calculating by a large amount the amount of required fuel load and is over estimating the travel time to complete the flight by hours. I'm not sure this is a good tool to pass on to other PMDG users. If I am missing something please help me to better understand how to use this tool.Thank you.Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There's nothing like a printed fuel planning table, as a certain Hapag Lloyd A310 crew found out...
:(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nikola and all,I built my own fuel planner for 747, 737 and - now for MD11 as soon it came out - based on RW flightplans. It seems to me that the FMS has changed after the patch. . .Before I arrived at my destination within +/- 500 kgs of my estimate, of course pending on the accuracy of the wind prediction.Now I had to rearrange my fuel estimation upwards, since after the patch I missed constantly about 10% of the estimated fuel.The tool is based on EXCEL and if you are interested just send a mail with e-mail adress and I will be happy to send it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In RL they have dispatchers who use very sophisticated (and expensive) flight planning software that does it all for them... such software is for example capable of computing the "least fuel route" or use other constraints, but even then captains may decide to make final adjustments in the amount of fuel carried.
Michal,most of the time they re very expensive but in the same time at office we still have the flight planning manual of the aircrafts just in we want to refine what the computer is saying or for any reasons .. in the same time the FMS is giving is own rules that are not the own used by the flightplanner program ...FOC DANUR 2003 is a good product matching real flightplanning software and there is at least two MD11 profiles one in PW and another one in GE engines ...see youPhil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good day, I am interested in getting a copy of this chart but I find that every time I try to download it form this site I received the following message, please see attached picture. Why am I being asked to log in to the server? How does one become a member on this site to log in and download the file? Can someone send me a copy of this file?Thank you and have a great day!James Ormond
LOL Watch the two words in red underneath that loging screen... VOR and DME... :( He did this to avoid direct links (leeching).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

those charts posted are the ones typed but coming from Swissair datas ... very strange to copyrights something not really from you directly ...phil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello,I'm the one who realize these files. The copyright here is only related to the file I propose, not the data. Feel free to copy it under Excel, Powerpoint, or whatever you want by doing what I did, enter manually the data in an Excel spreadsheet for offering them for free download. It's not a cut / paste of an image embeded in a word document. Moreover, I can't invent the values, otherwise, it's not usefull.Why a copyright ? just because some unfair people picked my documents and published them as "author of the document" on their website (mainly the tutorials I wrote in French). Of course these document are sourced by an original one, but as you know, it's not possible to offer for download a document you're not authorized to by the author. That's why I re-created them in Excel. There are some minor differences (the original correction lines are curved, not straight as the mine) but the layout is the same, and so the values.If you were French, you could understand what is written on my documents (the tutorials I've published since March 2005). I just wan't you to have a look here, on a document I translate, time ago :http://www.fs-tutorials.com/en/tuto_B747_400_01_PMDG_01.phpUnfortunately, the source of the 2 other parts, and the 737 tutorials were lost in a crash disk. As 99.99% of my documents, it's an original creation of mine. Recently I received a thanks from an English speaking guy and it's mYou're lucky to understand English but I let you imagine how such a perfect addons are difficult to handle for people non fluent in English.You can be suspicious ... it's your right but keep in mind that I'm not a pirate, just someone that share his knowledge. Some people above can tell you what I did for the French community.
Jean-Michel,you re not the only one providing stuff for communauty and i do not trust in one communauty against the others.about English im not lucky or whatever you call it but work on it nothing else. (even with that the english spoken laught at me lol ...)Nowadays aviation is English spoken even in Quebec where i live.so is simulation. i've made a lot of profiles for FSBUILD 2.0 and Danur FOC2003. and more since FS98 so no needs to spread or saying mine is bigger lol ...im still giving my sources when releasing profiles but not copyrighted them for my reasons because firstly this is not my datas but companies or aircraft builders so copyrighting something already existing because you compiled it is not the way i think but feel free to do it and share with simfly communauty but do not forget to enclose from where you get them (just my toughts...). truly yoursPhil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phil, Thanks for the remarks. As I'm not fluent enough to explain in English what I exactly want to say and as I don't want people to misunderstand my explanations, I just will update the docs including a remark the next time I'll update them. My post was not an personal attack against you, or "to spread or saying mine is bigger", it was just an explanation. Moreover, it was also not a so called "one communauty against the others", this is not what I would say initially and I don't have such an approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jean-Michel, the French speaking simworld is lucky to have someone like you providing them tutorials and stuff of this quality in their own language...! I had a peak at your MD-11 tutorials, with all the charts and so on, and boy, I'm so jealous...! :( Maybe I'll try them anyhow, even though my French sucks big time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys i just want to know what are ballast tanks for? and how am i able to use it?i flew md-11 for long hauls with max takeoff weight but i noticed i gives me unsufficient fuel. (regardless with the wind. is this realistic? can i not put on full pax and more fuel? whats the technique for long haul flights?Rajiv L. Murjani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I'm sorry but we can't allow copyrighted data like this to be posted here. It doesn't matter that someone else copied it and made their own chart - the data is still owned by Boeing and the airline in question. Please don't post any further links to such performance data - we were specifically told by Boeing not to distribute or allow them to be distributed here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites