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Guest SennTourraine

STAR waypoints in the wrong place

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Hi guys, first of all great airplane, it is really fantastic.I fly too and from EGLL alot, mainly to europe and back. Ive noticed a problem with the BIG3B STAR. The waypoints seem to be in the wrong place.I have taken a screenshot compairing the charts for this approach to what gets programmed after selecting the STAR from the FMC. big3bproblemee0.jpgw1397.pngNow all of the waypoints are here but they are in the incorrect position reletive to the BIG vor. If you look at the BIG/09 waypoint on the ND, it is the correct distance from BIG, 9nm, but its on completely the wrong bearing. The same can be said for the waypoints on the start of the first turn. It looks like its adding the distance waypoints on the same course of the last waypoint.

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This is probably something you'll want to report to Richard Stefan at Navigraph - we don't actually make the navdata, looks like some of the waypoints might have the wrong lat/lon definitions in the files... You can fix it yourself though (at least locally on your machine) by editing the lat/lon for those fixes in the EGLL.txt file if you have a correct source for them...

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Steve Bell creates a set of sidstars for UK that can be found at: http://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/747.htmlTerry Yingling also creates sidstar sets for US and UK, these can be found at http://planepath.com/Also, and importantly, the ND display will often not look like the chart. Especially if there are segments like turns (that are not defined arc-to-fix legs), conditional waypoints. The best thing to do before making a bug report to Navigraph is to fly it and see if it works... then specify what isn't working in flight rather than trying to fix the ND presentation. The 737NG comes closest to portraying the route, which is what I use to test and debug sidstars.

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Would it be possible for anyone else to try this STAR out to see if it is a local problem for me?I flew the STAR earlier and it follows the line more or less, so its not just an error on the ND. If someone could just park themself at Paris CDG, LFPG, and program the following plan LFPG ALESO EGLL, use the BIG3B star with the BIG transition and please tell me or show me what is displayed on the ND for you.I would really appreciate it, thank you.

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Can nobody test this for me?
Hi Tim I don't have a MD 11 but Im testing on FS2004 747-400 Using latest NAV data AIRAC 0901Dilip115200971146pmbf3.jpgBy shirke at 2009-01-15

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Hi, I flew this route a couple of days ago, the only weird thing for me was an ILS27L misalignment in LHR that I could correct with the Flight1 registry repair tool.I certainly don't remember any waypoints being placed strangely here, but that does not mean that wasn't the case.Just a thought, did you have the speed limitations set up correctly? That can have an effect on the route appearance I do believe... then again, I could be talking nonsense... :DWhen online (IVAO) I often have vectors to final in LHR, and have not been able to follow STAR and transitions fully, although I would have liked to...Perhaps I will get the chance to do the LFPG-EGLL route again this evening, a nice short route with lots to do in the 90 minutes or so from C&D to parking brake set and engines shut down in LHR...Andrew

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Just a thought, did you have the speed limitations set up correctly? That can have an effect on the route appearance I do believe... then again, I could be talking nonsense... :DPerhaps I will get the chance to do the LFPG-EGLL route again this evening, a nice short route with lots to do in the 90 minutes or so from C&D to parking brake set and engines shut down in LHR...Andrew
Yeah the speeds are setup correctly, thats all working fine. I make sure I put flaps down to 15 a short time after passing BIG, that gives enough time to slow down to 180kts for the first turn.I managed to fix the BIG/09 waypoint location by editing the EGLL.txt file in the sidstars folder, the file was all correct, it said at the start of the second turn to 'Track 000 degrees until 9nm from BIG'. But for some reason the MD-11 was not interpreting this correctly. I changed it to track 001 and it now starts the second turn in the correct place.But Another problem I have run into is that the first turn is so sharp and finishes too far south that the second turn gets split up into two seperate 90 degree turns. Im currently editing the SIDSTAR file to make the first turn a bit wider.And yes the EGLL-LFPG and LFPG-EGLL are nice short trips I used when getting used to the systems and operation of the MD-11. The STAR into Charles De Gaule has a nice manual section as well :).Anyway thanks for testing this out. Its helped me alot.

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Sean,As Dan Downs has already posted ...I produce SIDSTAR files for EGLL, EGKK, EGSS, EGCC, EGPK & EGFF (arpts that British Airways Virtual operates the 747-400 from/to) ... these are available at the link he kindly posted above & work perfectly with Cycle 0901 ... I update them inline with RW Changes.You will find all your issues will disappear if you install them following the readme file included in the download.I also install Dan's superb US files ... both are installed over the current AIRAC.If I get time this week I will post a screenie of my ND in PLN Mode with the various approaches to LHR via the BIG STAR.Try 'em & seeKind RegardsSteve Bell

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Looks good, Steve.
Couldn't agree more Dan.But Steve; can you please stop telling people about these. ATC are eventually going to cotton on that it's not me flying these approaches perfectly! :( CheersPaul

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OK,A bit of a free plug for my SIDSTAR files...avail at http://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/747.htmlSteve Bell
Just tested out your 27L big3b STAR. Is it missing the 303 intercept? The MD-11 went straight from the 295 intercept on the exit of the first turn, flying a diagonal course, to the BIG9 intercept halfway through the second turn.Heres how it looked on the ND. It followed the magenta line, taking the same course after 295 intercept.Hope you dont mind but I made a quick edit to add in the 303 intercept. I made it at a distance 8nm, it works quite well.Ive got a new problem now though, whenever I try to load a SID for LFPG my game crashes :( *sigh* This thing just does not want to work for me.

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This was funnY!.....puuhhh. I did the BIG3 arrival RWY 27R and approached BIG at 2500ft LOC alive but didnt catch G/S. I had to manually descend until G/S alive, then the AP disconnected about 200ft AGL of itsself. Roar

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