Vectoring to intercept ILS localizer

[Guest abz]

I have noted this problem many times when landing on a runway that is in the same direction as the flight direction into your destination airport. For example, flying from the west to the east and landing on an eastbound runway at the destination. RC vectors you to the runway and brings you in pretty far out, approx 25 miles or so from the airport and then says turn to such and such a heading to intercept the localizer. However, at this distance from the airport, I have not yet picked up the ILS signal. If I stay at the intercept heading given by RC, I end up crossing the localizer to the other side. When the ILS signal is eventually picked up I am way on the other side of the localizer. When doing the same flight and landing in the opposite direction, RC vectors you to intercept the localizer closer in when the ILS signal is already being received and intercepting the localizer course works perfect. Have others noted this same problem? Is there any way around this? Thanks, Al

[ubersu 78]

I have noted this problem many times when landing on a runway that is in the same direction as the flight direction into your destination airport. For example, flying from the west to the east and landing on an eastbound runway at the destination. RC vectors you to the runway and brings you in pretty far out, approx 25 miles or so from the airport and then says turn to such and such a heading to intercept the localizer. However, at this distance from the airport, I have not yet picked up the ILS signal. If I stay at the intercept heading given by RC, I end up crossing the localizer to the other side. When the ILS signal is eventually picked up I am way on the other side of the localizer. When doing the same flight and landing in the opposite direction, RC vectors you to intercept the localizer closer in when the ILS signal is already being received and intercepting the localizer course works perfect. Have others noted this same problem? Is there any way around this? Thanks, Al

I generally use the flightplan display (GPS or FMC display) to locate the runway centerline by increasing the range until I can see it, and then fly my own intercept until I can pickup the ILS... Once you're cleared on the final course to intercept, RC doesn't really care what you do.DJ

[ronzie 21]

A couple of workarounds:If there is a VOR on or near the airport and you know you are far out and can't pick up the localizer, tune in that VOR on your NAV 2. Look at the DME if available to get an idea of the distance of the airport. Turn the your VOR 2 OBS if it is that type to the inbound course of the runway. If you have an RMI then the VOR 2 needle will point to airport's VOR. If there is an NDB in the airport vicinity you can tune to that so it should come alive on your RMI.When the type VOR 2 needle gets toward the center turn inbound. On the RMI when the course agrees with the inbound runway heading turn inbound. The frequency of your NAV 1 should be on the localizer as should the standby frequency of NAV2.For a GPS when the the bearing to destination agrees with the inbound course, turn to it.These will keep you on the extended center line.This might help a bit.http://www.stoenworks.com/Tutorials/IFR%2C...Approaches.htmlhttp://www.stoenworks.com/Tutorials/IFR%2C...Approaches.htmlNow most aircraft have a slaved ADF or RMI where the compass rose top indicates the nose of the aircraft. The same is true for the Navigation display. If you are landing on runway nine as you pass the extended center line the "needles" will approach 90 degrees on the rose and that's where you turn inbound and track until the localizer comes alive on NAV 1.

[Guest abz]

OK. Thanks DJ and Ron. So you need a workaround to make this happen. I certainly can do that.However, I would think that RC should be able to be take care of this and vector you at the proper locationwhere the localizer can be picked up before it is too late. It certainly does this when landing on the far side.Thanks, Al

[jd 57]

OK. Thanks DJ and Ron. So you need a workaround to make this happen. I certainly can do that.However, I would think that RC should be able to be take care of this and vector you at the proper locationwhere the localizer can be picked up before it is too late. It certainly does this when landing on the far side.Thanks, Al

it's not the function of atc to put you on the localizer. the intercept heading puts you on a heading that will interesect the localizer at the proper location. you have to make the final turnjd

[jd 57]

OK. Thanks DJ and Ron. So you need a workaround to make this happen. I certainly can do that.However, I would think that RC should be able to be take care of this and vector you at the proper locationwhere the localizer can be picked up before it is too late. It certainly does this when landing on the far side.Thanks, Al

if you can make a .log, instructions pinned to the top of the forum. let me look at what's happening. and you have done an rc scenery database rebuild, correct?jd

[chrispeel 0]

I usually do IAP approaches in FS9 but whenever I've asked RC4 for a vectored approach I find he usually puts me a correct intercept heading and at a suitable range to receive the ILS/Loc/Gs signals.In fact I don't think I've ever encountered a lack of ILS signal at that stage.Those workarounds suggested by Ronzie and Ubersu are also very useful if you are doing your own thing.

[tjrush 54]

The RC command window will show the distance and heading to the airport. Just turn to that heading until you are in range of the ILS signal.

[ExpressJetXE 0]

I also had and stil have this problem. What I do is say i want to land rwy 23R at KTYS. ATC vector me to the rwy. In my FMC I add the intersection that is closer to the ILS cone which was BUZBY when I get close to it I go into my FMS which I use FSNavigator hit fly to here and let it go there and when I get my flaps set to 45 i have already intercepted the ILS. Make sure you turn the HDG off when you turn the APP on. This works for me.

[neilbradley1 2]

A couple of workarounds:If there is a VOR on or near the airport and you know you are far out and can't pick up the localizer, tune in that VOR on your NAV 2. Look at the DME if available to get an idea of the distance of the airport. Turn the your VOR 2 OBS if it is that type to the inbound course of the runway. If you have an RMI then the VOR 2 needle will point to airport's VOR. If there is an NDB in the airport vicinity you can tune to that so it should come alive on your RMI.When the type VOR 2 needle gets toward the center turn inbound. On the RMI when the course agrees with the inbound runway heading turn inbound. The frequency of your NAV 1 should be on the localizer as should the standby frequency of NAV2.For a GPS when the the bearing to destination agrees with the inbound course, turn to it.These will keep you on the extended center line.This might help a bit.http://www.stoenworks.com/Tutorials/IFR%2C...Approaches.htmlhttp://www.stoenworks.com/Tutorials/IFR%2C...Approaches.htmlNow most aircraft have a slaved ADF or RMI where the compass rose top indicates the nose of the aircraft. The same is true for the Navigation display. If you are landing on runway nine as you pass the extended center line the "needles" will approach 90 degrees on the rose and that's where you turn inbound and track until the localizer comes alive on NAV 1.

I have found after checking a few airports in AFCAD that the ILS range has been set to a default of 27 miles. Before flight you can change this to a more realistic 40-50 miles (line of sight) subject to terrain blocking the signal. I understand the problem as it has happened to me on a number of occasions. Flying the PMDG B737 in these cases I will have the runway centreline displayed on the ND so if the ILS is not up as I close the extended centreline, I either use the heading command or swith back to LNAV until the ILS signal is received.Neil Bradley

[chrispeel 0]

I didn't know that, Neil Bradley, so thanks for the heads up.I agree that most ILS seem to be serviceable beyond thatI do find however that RC4 usually puts me on a good intercept for the ILS at pretty well every airport I ask him to and usually well inside the 27 mile mark too.Are many other users finding that not to be the case?Most airports I have visited in real life try to vector for something like 10 to 12 mile final,terrain permitting.I used to know a Neil Bradley many years ago.Racking my brain to remember where and when.