http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090503/ap_on_...meltdown_pilotsThe last sentence sums it up nicely. :( Roger

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090503/ap_on_...meltdown_pilotsThe last sentence sums it up nicely. :( Roger

So more people should take up flightsim... it's a heck of a lot cheaper than the real thing :( Aviation has historically been a real feast and famine business; it should come as no surprise that aviation is getting hit very hard in these tough times.A friend of mine was just laid-off (10 years of service and at the end of the day they treat him like he's some migrant lettuce picker). Another just had his salary cut in half.It's ugly out there....

As they always say about aviation, if God had wanted us to fly, he'd have given us more money.Can't help but get a wry smile when I see people in the US complaining about the cost of flying though, they should try it in the UK, it's always been prohibitively expensive here, and the only people who fly are those who are either rich, do it for a job, or are prepared to sacrifice a lot of other things in favour of flying.But ultimately if you want to fly, you will find a way to do it.Al

My money ran out right after Ground Instructor training.It was the same as footing the bill for a 'normal' college education with the added 'lab (flight) fees' that are ten times higher...every week.I'm doing something else now for a living as I don't see myself sitting in a commercial cockpit at my age. That's why there is a 727 cockpit in my basement.Two of my flight instructors both made it into a 737 with a South American airline and a 727-231 with TWA. Not all of the others found a better paying career in aviation other than instructing. I don't even know if those two mentioned are still in the career field.

As they always say about aviation, if God had wanted us to fly, he'd have given us more money.Can't help but get a wry smile when I see people in the US complaining about the cost of flying though, they should try it in the UK, it's always been prohibitively expensive here, and the only people who fly are those who are either rich, do it for a job, or are prepared to sacrifice a lot of other things in favour of flying.But ultimately if you want to fly, you will find a way to do it.Al

Oh we know. That's why we are trying to fight every time user fees are brought up.Right now business isn't too bad for me but if user fees were brought in, I think there would have to be a bailout for flight instructors.

If the government, as well as many states get there way, flying in the U.S. will make flying in the U.K. look cheap. Maybe not right away, but we'll get there eventually. We've been very lucky up until recently to be able to fend off so many ridiculous proposed bills and provide relatively cheap access to GA travel in comparison to other countries, but things are not looking so good for the future. The newest budget proposal seeks to "replace some excise taxes with direct user charges". According to the AOPA, this "could cost as much as $7.5 billon annually". Plus, the government wants to reduce FAA funding and place more of the burden on GA pilots and airports, the latter of which will burden GA pilots in addition to there increased taxes and fees. Plus, many states are trying to make up for there poor budget management by increasing taxes and fees on GA pilots, aircraft and airports. Here in Florida we just managed to get HB51 passed through the house, but it looks like it will fail in the senate as they are not as connected with there constituents and are more concerned about getting money any way they can. It sickens me when politicians think of all pilots as filthy rich people that light there cigars with $100 bills. Apparently they are unaware of how many struggle to pay loans for there lessons and how many actually rent aircraft because they can not afford to buy one. I don't own my Baron, I'm just borrowing it from the bank. I didn't get my 206 paid off until just a few months before I sold it....still regreting that Geof.

If the government, as well as many states get there way, flying in the U.S. will make flying in the U.K. look cheap. Maybe not right away, but we'll get there eventually. We've been very lucky up until recently to be able to fend off so many ridiculous proposed bills and provide relatively cheap access to GA travel in comparison to other countries, but things are not looking so good for the future. The newest budget proposal seeks to "replace some excise taxes with direct user charges". According to the AOPA, this "could cost as much as $7.5 billon annually". Plus, the government wants to reduce FAA funding and place more of the burden on GA pilots and airports, the latter of which will burden GA pilots in addition to there increased taxes and fees. Plus, many states are trying to make up for there poor budget management by increasing taxes and fees on GA pilots, aircraft and airports. Here in Florida we just managed to get HB51 passed through the house, but it looks like it will fail in the senate as they are not as connected with there constituents and are more concerned about getting money any way they can. It sickens me when politicians think of all pilots as filthy rich people that light there cigars with $100 bills. Apparently they are unaware of how many struggle to pay loans for there lessons and how many actually rent aircraft because they can not afford to buy one. I don't own my Baron, I'm just borrowing it from the bank. I didn't get my 206 paid off until just a few months before I sold it....still regreting that Geof.

My heart really bleeds for these poor pilots who don't have enough money to indulge their hobby - almost as much as for those who don't have enough money to feed their families.

My heart really bleeds for these poor pilots who don't have enough money to indulge their hobby - almost as much as for those who don't have enough money to feed their families.

Unfortunately, those "poor pilots" are directly responsible for over 1.2 million jobs that are in jeopardy because of unecessary legislation. While I grieve for those struggling, I see no need to add to the numbers by increasing taxes and fees to the point that many can no longer support there hobby, in turn causing many more to struggle to feed there families. While it is fashionable to go after those people considered rich or at least well enough off to support there hobbies, they are the ones who are keeping many in a job right now. When that flight instructor loses enough business to sustain himself, he will have to find other work in an economy that's losing more jobs than it creates. I suggest that anyone critical of GA right now to research the numbers and see just how critical the industry is to so many.

My heart really bleeds for these poor pilots who don't have enough money to indulge their hobby - almost as much as for those who don't have enough money to feed their families.

My heart bleeds for you and the bitterness and cynicism that you live with.

Unfortunately, those "poor pilots" are directly responsible for over 1.2 million jobs that are in jeopardy because of unecessary legislation.

Wrong. Your source is presumably AOPA

General aviation is an economic engine that pumps $150 billion into the U.S. economy each year and creates 1.2 million jobs.

http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009...vesamerica.htmlGeneral aviation is defined as the operation of civilian aircraft for purposes other than commercial passenger transport. The poor pilots who don't have enough money to indulge their hobby are only a fraction of GA and are not responsible for that number of jobs themselves.Incidentally, GA may support 1.2 million jobs but I doubt it creates that number of new jobs every year.I stand by my point - it's only a hobby for those pilots and, like many other people, what they can't afford, they must do without.

Wrong. Your source is presumably AOPAhttp://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009...vesamerica.htmlGeneral aviation is defined as the operation of civilian aircraft for purposes other than commercial passenger transport. The poor pilots who don't have enough money to indulge their hobby are only a fraction of GA and are not responsible for that number of jobs themselves.Incidentally, GA may support 1.2 million jobs but I doubt it creates that number of new jobs every year.I stand by my point - it's only a hobby for those pilots and, like many other people, what they can't afford, they must do without.

You presume incorrectly. The AOPA supports my claim, but my figure arrives from a North Florida Flight Training Center statistic March 4, 2009. I may have misread your post, apologize if I did, but I never claimed that it "created" that number of new jobs every year. I'm glad you stand by your point, I admire conviction. Unfortunately I don't think that I can articulate my point in a manner that you, or many others will ever understand. If my neighbor (A North Florida Institute flight instructor) loses just one more of his students, he will no longer be able to continue. He is not rich by any means and given the job outlook around here this could mean that he will be yet one more person struggling to feed his family.

My heart bleeds for you and the bitterness and cynicism that you live with.

It's not cynicism - it's realism.We are in a recession and people are losing their jobs and uncertain and worried how they are going to be able to support their families. In comparison that, complaining about being unable to indulge in an expensive hobby pales into insignificance, don't you think?

You presume incorrectly. The AOPA supports my claim, but my figure arrives from a North Florida Flight Training Center statistic March 4, 2009. I may have misread your post, apologize if I did, but I never claimed that it "created" that number of new jobs every year. I'm glad you stand by your point, I admire conviction. Unfortunately I don't think that I can articulate my point in a manner that you, or many others will ever understand. If my neighbor (A North Florida Institute flight instructor) loses just one more of his students, he will no longer be able to continue. He is not rich by any means and given the job outlook around here this could mean that he will be yet one more person struggling to feed his family.

I don't have access to North Florida Flight Training Center statistic but as the figures are the same I imagine they came from a common source.I have sympathy for anyone who loses a job. In a recession most jobs are lost because of falling demand and this applies to flight instructors as well as car workers etc etc. Aviation isn't a special case.My point remains that in the current economic situation, I don't have any sympathy with those whose complaint is that they can no longer indulge in an expensive hobby.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090503/ap_on_...meltdown_pilotsThe last sentence sums it up nicely. :( Roger

I put my lessons on hold as soon as the economy went south just short of my solo (my CFI had hinted it was going to be my next lesson, but to keep me coming back?). There really wasn't any choice, there was too much (and still is) uncertainty about the factors most important--our job, watching ourselves go from 50 pct. equity to virtually upside down in our mortgage, and so on. Many friends who are pilots said "you were going to SOLO!, WHY DID YOU QUIT!). I didn't quit, I simply changed my priorities. I still fly and get stick time whenever a friend invites me up, and took up weight shift flying last year. And I will probably finish someday, I am still just shy of 50--many flying years left. I feel I am a competent flier in a light aircraft, I just need to be taught to be a pilot. At a recent airshow I had a chance to speak with a CFI I befriended and had chosen to finish my flight instruction (my first CFI was always too booked to allow regular lesson time). He said things had come to a standstill in terms of students. There were many "double whammys" that hit his profession--the economy, the soaring fuel costs last year, and so on. But I still feel as passionate about being in the air today as I did when I started my lessons a few years' back. I will get the chance to enjoy the skies again, and I think the industry (of student training) as a whole will recover at some point. Light Sport, which was my avenue into fixed wing flying, has enabled an easier path to fly than ever before, at least here in the U.S..Regards,John

I don't have access to North Florida Flight Training Center statistic but as the figures are the same I imagine they came from a common source.I have sympathy for anyone who loses a job. In a recession most jobs are lost because of falling demand and this applies to flight instructors as well as car workers etc etc. Aviation isn't a special case.My point remains that in the current economic situation, I don't have any sympathy with those whose complaint is that they can no longer indulge in an expensive hobby.

Then perhaps there is not as much disagreement here as I thought. My grief goes to those who are losing or will lose there jobs because of the uneccesary regulations that are causing many students and certified pilots to have to cut back or outright stop, which in turn causes less spending at the FBOs and elsewhere. Galaxy Aviation had to cut nearly half its workforce and the new fuel guys up at Craig are now part-time, probably leading to layoffs very soon. What shocks me is how ignorant the government is in understanding that increased taxes and fees actually bring in LESS money, not more. This was proven in Florida already, which is why HB51 passed the house.