FSX Piracy Amazing Story

[JSkorna 137]

I read that he is from Seattle.

[n4gix 4,955]

scoob, where are you from?

Look in the left column:From: Seattle, USAMember No.: 120,347

[rightseater 0]

Everyone please keep this thread on topic and let's not let it get out of control like the last time when it got locked. I sincerely DO NOT want to lock my first thread.

[GaryTrammell 10]

Look in the left column:From: Seattle, USAMember No.: 120,347

oh DUH. :( I knew A guy from when I was in the Navy we called sbooby doo, he was my DI but i think he was from Chicago.oh well...

Everyone please keep this thread on topic and let's not let it get out of control like the last time when it got locked. I sincerely DO NOT want to lock my first thread.

oh come on....yes you do. just to see how many nasty PM's you might get *LOL*

[rightseater 0]

oh DUH. :( I knew A guy from when I was in the Navy we called sbooby doo, he was my DI but i think he was from Chicago.oh well...oh come on....yes you do. just to see how many nasty PM's you might get *LOL*

:( I'll make sure to brace myself for that.To be honest I find the piracy debate fascinating and really do want it to continue, so long as it remains calm without the verbal insults. I believe that developers and sim enthusiasts could benefit from discussion on the topic, I just don't know how yet. I fear we will lose most of the payware developers in the not-too-distant future if something is not done. In fact, I know of a few who have said as much. It reminds me of that YouTube video about the AVSIM hack. I just don't want to be stuck with what I've got when I know there's a lot of great things yet to come for FS if the developers stay in the game.

[Guest zzmikezz]

:( I'll make sure to brace myself for that.To be honest I find the piracy debate fascinating and really do want it to continue, so long as it remains calm without the verbal insults. I believe that developers and sim enthusiasts could benefit from discussion on the topic, I just don't know how yet. I fear we will lose most of the payware developers in the not-too-distant future if something is not done. In fact, I know of a few who have said as much. It reminds me of that YouTube video about the AVSIM hack. I just don't want to be stuck with what I've got when I know there's a lot of great things yet to come for FS if the developers stay in the game.

Putting words in the mouth of my dear friend Jim Skorna, he effectively will tell you that piracy is not a problem if only developers write nothing but smash hits. Then they don't perceive the revenue reduction and therefore don't lose any sleep over it, much less find themselves running at a loss.So ...How about it, developers? Time to stop writing those products that sell just well enough for piracy to put you in a loss situation. It's entirely up to you whether you want to make a profit so stop blaming the pirates, about whom nothing can or should be done, right Jim?

[rightseater 0]

Putting words in the mouth of my dear friend Jim Skorna, he effectively will tell you that piracy is not a problem if only developers write nothing but smash hits. Then they don't perceive the revenue reduction and therefore don't lose any sleep over it, much less find themselves running at a loss.So ...How about it, developers? Time to stop writing those products that sell just well enough for piracy to put you in a loss situation. It's entirely up to you whether you want to make a profit so stop blaming the pirates, about whom nothing can or should be done, right Jim?

I love the spirited debate Mike, I just can't subscribe to that logic because there's not a lot of hard data available on the topic. The exception to that, of course, is that I can always go and see how many people are pirating a product at any given time, but I have no way of comparing that to sales or realizing how many pirates would otherwise be paying customers. Given what you have said, PMDG should not be suffering from significant affects of piracy, but I don't know if they are or not. I don't expect them to release sales numbers and profit figures to me, so I must take everyone at there word. I would be interested in knowing how Lotus Sim is doing with the L-39. That things been pirated to death and it most certainly is a top-notch piece of work.

[Guest zzmikezz]

I love the spirited debate Mike, I just can't subscribe to that logic because there's not a lot of hard data available on the topic. The exception to that, of course, is that I can always go and see how many people are pirating a product at any given time, but I have no way of comparing that to sales or realizing how many pirates would otherwise be paying customers. Given what you have said, PMDG should not be suffering from significant affects of piracy, but I don't know if they are or not. I don't expect them to release sales numbers and profit figures to me, so I must take everyone at there word. I would be interested in knowing how Lotus Sim is doing with the L-39. That things been pirated to death and it most certainly is a top-notch piece of work.

I'm an ex marketing guy. (I don't mean sales, I mean marketing in the business school sense.) About 18 months ago I made some educated guesses based on the best information available. Unfortunately my memory is patchy these days so I'm going to have to try to track down the discussions, which took place partly on SimFlight, partly here but mostly on FlightSim.Kindly give me a day or two to locate my work. Your concerns about my position are valid but I think I can address them to your satisfaction.

[rightseater 0]

I'm an ex marketing guy. (I don't mean sales, I mean marketing in the business school sense.) About 18 months ago I made some educated guesses based on the best information available. Unfortunately my memory is patchy these days so I'm going to have to try to track down the discussions, which took place partly on SimFlight, partly here but mostly on FlightSim.Kindly give me a day or two to locate my work. Your concerns about my position are valid but I think I can address them to your satisfaction.

I look forward to reviewing your findings Mike. All I have been able to do lately is talk to a few friends in the business, most of which are very tight lipped on the subject, and witness what is going on via the pirate sites. I think it would be nice to have an educated guess on some figures. Whether right or wrong it's better than nothing in keeping the debate alive.

[Guest zzmikezz]

I look forward to reviewing your findings Mike. All I have been able to do lately is talk to a few friends in the business, most of which are very tight lipped on the subject, and witness what is going on via the pirate sites. I think it would be nice to have an educated guess on some figures. Whether right or wrong it's better than nothing in keeping the debate alive.

It's interesting to have these discussions but you do realize that we're not going to settle anything, yes? All I will be able to do is show you how a marginal (in a business sense) developer easily can be driven out of business by pirates. I'll also be discussing the concept of "optimal price", not that any developer will listen to me on this subject.I had some additional ideas about how to combat piracy but I really don't want to have those arguments with mgh et al again. I'll try to come up with thread links and post numbers, we shall see what we shall see.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxAnd I forgot the piracy discussions on SimPilotNet.com, so that makes four sites I can recall where heated discussions took place. Again, kindly give me a couple of days to come up with the information.P.S. I'll also be addressing the issue of how many pirated copies would never have been revenue sales to begin with. Again, this issue can have major impact on struggling developers.

[Guest zzmikezz]

It's interesting to have these discussions but you do realize that we're not going to settle anything, yes? All I will be able to do is show you how a marginal (in a business sense) developer easily can be driven out of business by pirates. I'll also be discussing the concept of "optimal price", not that any developer will listen to me on this subject.I had some additional ideas about how to combat piracy but I really don't want to have those arguments with mgh et al again. I'll try to come up with thread links and post numbers, we shall see what we shall see.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxAnd I forgot the piracy discussions on SimPilotNet.com, so that makes four sites I can recall where heated discussions took place. Again, kindly give me a couple of days to come up with the information.P.S. I'll also be addressing the issue of how many pirated copies would never have been revenue sales to begin with. Again, this issue can have major impact on struggling developers.

P.P.S ... This whole scene is a big part of why Graham Waterfield closed the PSS doors. As I dug deeper into the whole subject over the six month period ending eighteen months ago, I also discovered a shocking mess in the area of unreasonable demands by both customers and "customers" (users of pirated product), so bad that it has caused me to think twice about whether and how to bring my AirBoss product to market. (It will never be more than a cult product, and I'm not sure that I want the aggravation. I already have the use of it, which was why I built it. I have zero hassles and zero piracy and I may elect to keep things that way.I should note re support that even freeware can result in people being driven from the FS community. You have only to look at the Mike Stone situation of three years ago.

[WarpD 824]

No marketing analysis will address the issue that developers simply get fed up with being robbed, repeatedly without any effective recourse.

[Guest V4DIV-CVN-70]

No marketing analysis will address the issue that developers simply get fed up with being robbed, repeatedly without any effective recourse.

Im not a developer only a Computer Tech with 19 years building computers and maintaining networks and I would love to know the best ways a developer can keep their product from being pirated. Flight1 Wrapper? MS-Style Activation? I hear allot of folks complaining about ariane requiring multiple activations and charges, is this they way? Does Ariane have a pirate problem? Inquiring minds want to know. *grin*

[Guest belga1]

Hello,

Does Ariane have a pirate problem?

Ariane products are pirated to death. The only effective protection that currently exists is the "USB dongle"Used by the game SteelBeastsThis develloper offered reward to people able to crack it :)http://steelbeasts.comRegards.Gus.

[byork 2,260]

Im not a developer only a Computer Tech with 19 years building computers and maintaining networks and I would love to know the best ways a developer can keep their product from being pirated. Flight1 Wrapper? MS-Style Activation? I hear allot of folks complaining about ariane requiring multiple activations and charges, is this they way? Does Ariane have a pirate problem? Inquiring minds want to know. *grin*

Machine bound licensing can work fairly well (as a delaying mechanism) but pretty well all FS devs have a problem with piracy, though. While I still think the vast majority of pirates would never buy the software anyway because a lot of them are just kids or students, it's very discouraging for the developer.Pirates need to realize that not only are they destroying the FS Addon market, but the PC gaming market in general as well.