A Lite one like CLS does ? yes I believe so. LevelD is great, but the 'Lite' crowd is just not into that level of systems simulation. >I'd love for CLS to do birds like the 727, 707, DC8 etc without all the complication but a 767 is like seeing yet another KORD and/or KLAX. I hear ya, I agree. But to be fair to CLS they have done 2 classic models already (DC10 - 742).But a 767,747,737 IMO is still going to sell better than those classic models, even if the market is glutted with them.In the end its about what sells.Regards.Ernie.

"In the end it's what sells" Yes, this is the sad truth about commercialisation of a hobby. On the upside the standard of finish, complexity and so on improves. On the downside you end up with a glut of the popular and a shortage of the specialist. This goes more or less for all commercialisation. Who in their right minds is going to do, say a BAe 146 with VC to payware standards now? CLS? Now that would be nice . . .!

actually, IRIS is doing a BAe 146, apparently. And somebody is doing a freeware one.

actually, IRIS is doing a BAe 146, apparently. And somebody is doing a freeware one.

They aren't the only ones (others I'm aware of haven't made themselves public yet).A year from now people could possibly be complaining about the glut of Bae146's/RJ'/s in the market.These things go in cycles I guess.Regards.Ernie.

They aren't the only ones (others I'm aware of haven't made themselves public yet).A year from now people could possibly be complaining about the glut of Bae146's/RJ'/s in the market.These things go in cycles I guess.Regards.Ernie.

If that's true where's the Gulfstreams, 717's, and A300's people have been asking about for years (I'm talking quality stuff here at least on the level of CLS's 742 visually). You can make the case about anal Gulfstream politics but surely a company that specializes in 'lite' aircraft could have done a great visual model by now keeping tabs not to ###### off Gulfstream too much. There's too many examples to mention where a wealth of possibilities have been overlooked in favor of doing the same locations and/or aircraft over and over and over again. I've watched this for years in this community so it's a very valid point. I remember you couldn't find a decent payware Airbus (NEWS FLASH, to some that's still the case). Developers did Boeing after Boeing after Boeing. It took PSS and Feelthere to bring us something and that's better than a whole lot of nothing... These things don't go in cycles actually it's quite the opposite. After Aerosimmer where do you see the flood of A320 products hitting the market? No ware, what we do get is another 767... I had to plead to get KMSP done by Blueprint. Today you can't reach them as some have reported (they don't answer emails) and if they do respond it's a canned message. How long has it been since KMSP was done to any real detail like what we saw with the freeware version released years ago for FS2000? Before that there was nothing, ever... You can point to freeware which we all are grateful for but you put a major airport like KMSP up against KLAX and you tell me which one has had more attention over the years from serious developers. I made the case for Feelthere because unlike allot of other developers they created a nitch (which is how it should be). Feelthere is the only developer (who I work for from time to time) who has produced the CRJ, ERJ, E-Jet series in the history of the FS franchise. Most other developers don't have that kind of common since. Dreamfleet and Eaglesoft created a nitch as well. Other developers do what the other guy is doing over and over again and it makes no since... If it's about demand how many of us are actually going to buy FSDreamteam's KDFW and then turn around and buy Blueprints KDFW (Blueprint won't even take the incentive to get their KDFW out before FSDT's to get sales first. They have it pushed back a few projects. I for one can tell you in the confines of FS9 if FSDT releases theirs first who's going to buy anything else unless their new and don't know any better. How may people in that category)?

If that's true where's the Gulfstreams, 717's, and A300's people have been asking about for years (I'm talking quality stuff here at least on the level of CLS's 742 visually).

Well I don't if that's true, I think the Bae146 is kindy risky really, it will have a much greater appeal in Europe than it will in North America IMO, I don'tbelieve its even flown in North America anymore. Hopefully it works out for whoever eventually brings it to market.

You can make the case about anal Gulfstream politics but surely a company that specializes in 'lite' aircraft could have done a great visual model by now keeping tabs not to ###### off Gulfstream too much.

Yeah but who's gonna take the chance of spending the time money and effort for 6 months to a year or even longer to do a Gulfstream only to bemet with Gulfstreams army of attorneys as soon as their product is released ?

I remember you couldn't find a decent payware Airbus (NEWS FLASH, to some that's still the case). Developers did Boeing after Boeing after Boeing. It took PSS and Feelthere to bring us something and that's better than a whole lot of nothing... These things don't go in cycles actually it's quite the opposite. After Aerosimmer where do you see the flood of A320 products hitting the market? No ware, what we do get is another 767...

To do a realistic high end systems simulation of a Airbus apparently is a technical challenge. AirLinerXP took it on, and for now is out of the game. AirSimmer took it on as well and here it is over 3 years later and we are still hearing that its coming soon.I can understand why CLS would want to do a 767 after they already did an A330, the A320 is so similar to the A330, and Wilco has a A320 product out there.

I had to plead to get KMSP done by Blueprint. Today you can't reach them as some have reported (they don't answer emails) and if they do respond it's a canned message. How long has it been since KMSP was done to any real detail like what we saw with the freeware version released years ago for FS2000? Before that there was nothing, ever... You can point to freeware which we all are grateful for but you put a major airport like KMSP up against KLAX and you tell me which one has had more attention over the years from serious developers.

But of course it makes sense for a developer to KLAX, KDFW, EGLL, etc long before doing KMSP. If you don't do those first, your competitors will do it,and you lose out on the popularity of those Airport/Cities.That same reason why we had a glut of 737's at first. They were going to do the most popular Airliner ever sold first before focusing on the others.You can always go back and deal with the less popular types and models later on, but if you skip on the popular ones, you will lose out to your competitors.

I made the case for Feelthere because unlike allot of other developers they created a nitch (which is how it should be). Feelthere is the only developer (who I work for from time to time) who has produced the CRJ, ERJ, E-Jet series in the history of the FS franchise.

Ah-huh, and what's the first Aircraft FeelThere did ? a 737 right ?Regards.Ernie.

I can understand why CLS would want to do a 767 after they already did an A330, the A320 is so similar to the A330, and Wilco has a A320 product out there.

A 767 is similar to an A330... :( How do you go from an Airbus to a Boeing even if there's a case their both heavies? It would have made since to beef up the A300/310 since they were already doing Airbuses. A 767 is a totally different animal even from their outstanding 742. It's almost a 180 degree flip from what they've done so far. If we use the logic you've outlined the 744 would have been a good pick coming off the 742.

Ah-huh, and what's the first Aircraft FeelThere did ? a 737 right ?

I believe Feelthere's first bird was the CRJ-200 series then came the 700,900 series (a very popular regional bird that no one else was doing at the time and still to this day). We then worked on the Cessna Caravan and the 737 followed that. I know I'm forgetting something in there...Great back a fourth Ernie... :(

A 767 is similar to an A330... :(

You sure you read that quote right ? Or did you mean to say something else ?Regards.Ernie.

How do you go from an Airbus to a Boeing even if there's a case their both heavies? It would have made since to beef up the A300/310 since they were already doing Airbuses. A 767 is a totally different animal even from their outstanding 742. It's almost a 180 degree flip from what they've done so far. If we use the logic you've outlined the 744 would have been a good pick coming off the 742.

An A300/A310 is totally different from an A320 as different as a 744 is to a 767..My point was that since they already did an A330, it understandable they'd wana to so something different like a 767, instead of doing an A320 which basically has almost the same cockpit as an A330.

I believe Feelthere's first bird was the CRJ-200 series then came the 700,900 series (a very popular regional bird that no one else was doing at the time and still to this day). We then worked on the Cessna Caravan and the 737 followed that. I know I'm forgetting something in there...

I stand corrected then.Regards.Ernie.

They aren't the only ones (others I'm aware of haven't made themselves public yet).A year from now people could possibly be complaining about the glut of Bae146's/RJ'/s in the market.These things go in cycles I guess.Regards.Ernie.

I stand corrected. I had no knowledge of these projects. Still, that doesn't alter the fact that CLS have elected to do yet another 767 to add to 'the glut'. As of now there isn't a single BAe 146 with a VC on the market, that's the difference. Furthermore, I mentioned the BAe only by way of example. There are plenty of other possibilities. :( :(

I believe Feelthere's first bird was the CRJ-200 series then came the 700,900 series (a very popular regional bird that no one else was doing at the time and still to this day). We then worked on the Cessna Caravan and the 737 followed that. I know I'm forgetting something in there...

For the record...I'm pretty sure (because I bought it) that the first Feelthere release was an ERJ-145. It was an aircraft model only (no panel). The ERJ (PIC) was released much later. I think that the first full package from Feelthere and released through Wilco (ie; aircraft, panel, sounds) was the CRJ-200.

For the record...I'm pretty sure (because I bought it) that the first Feelthere release was an ERJ-145. It was an aircraft model only (no panel). The ERJ (PIC) was released much later. I think that the first full package from Feelthere and released through Wilco (ie; aircraft, panel, sounds) was the CRJ-200.

You are correct... I knew I forgot some details somewhere.

when will someone produce or design a classic 737-200 with a virtual cockpit?

when will someone produce or design a classic 737-200 with a virtual cockpit?

Aerosim did one, but the VC is not very good. What we really need is a 737-200 that is designed for FSX and FS2004, with Tinmouse 2 class panel, VC and exterior. Actually, I think that if CS or Dreamfleet could do this plane, that'd be great. However, it's a sad thing I haven't heard anything of Dreamfleet for some time.

Aerosim did one, but the VC is not very good. What we really need is a 737-200 that is designed for FSX and FS2004, with Tinmouse 2 class panel, VC and exterior. Actually, I think that if CS or Dreamfleet could do this plane, that'd be great. However, it's a sad thing I haven't heard anything of Dreamfleet for some time.

Would have been really nice seeing a dreamfleet 737-200 package, :( there are some more shots of the 767 over at the cls forum it looks really good definitely on my to buy list. http://www.commerciallevel.com/forum/index...?showtopic=8684

HI all looks like cls new plane is the B767 this is in no way a system heavy level d its for people that want a light systems simple package. let me know what you guys think.http://www.justflight.com/developProduct.asp?pid=469

The world don't need another 767, and certainly not a default-resembling 'lite' version.You did ask what I thought!Davido.