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vonmar

AFCAD runways and ATIS?

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AFCAD runways and ATIS?I downloaded KSBA (ksba-june08.zip) from the library.I "list runways" in AFCAD and see a bunch of 20 foot long x 20 feet wide runways listed .. not actually runways!And, ATIS call each out as departure / landing runways.What causes this?Is there a way to fix it?My thought was I installed it incorrectly but I thought I had seen this before with other afcads.Also I seen additional (user) glideslopes and localizers for other runways.

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I did a screenshot to show multiple short runways and extra ILS's.KSBA2.jpg

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I did a screenshot to show multiple short runways and extra ILS's.KSBA2.jpg
This is the result of activating multiple runways. FS regards any runways that are sufficiently close in direction to be parallel and allows AI to use them simultaneously... in this case, all those extra runways means that the FS AI will be able to use the crosswind runway at the same time as the main ones. Hope that makes sense - someone will probably explain it better...Geoff

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Geoff ,But, for example rwy 12/30 is not a runway!I am not understading many Fantom (20 foot long) runways.

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I am guessing here based on what I have read in the past. They create these "fake" runways in order to have crosswind landings. But I think they are supposed to move those runways out of range of the airport so they are not identified with ATC. Maybe that is the issue? Could be fixed if you know how to work with ADE9x.

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In FS if runway headings are within about 8 degrees of each other, FS assumes they are parallel and ATC will allow AI (and user) aircraft to select any of these parallel runways.So how to get FS to use runways that have a greater than 8 degrees difference in heading? Well, if you create little 20ft fake runways that are only about 7 degrees different from the previous one, then *all* of those runways will appear parallel to FS, and the two "real" runways will then be used simultaneously.For example, let's say we have runway 06 and runway 10. They vary in heading by about 40 degrees (60 vs 100 degrees). So FS will only use one of these at a time. But if we make some little fake runways with headings of 67, 74, 81, 88, and 95 degrees, then all of the runways (including runway 06 and runway 10) are now within 8 degrees of each other. FS sees this and will then use all of these runways.But wait! We don't want ATC to use the little fake runways. So we then move those fake runways as far as possible from our real airport (I think they can even be at the North Pole!), so ATC will not use those runways. All it has left is to use runways 06 and 10, but it now thinks they are parallel and uses them at the same time.The major problem with this approach is that all of these fake runways will be called out as "in use" by ATIS. Nothing you can do about that...Hope this helps,

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Tom and Geoff,Thanks for the detailed explanation.Now I know how it works ... kinda.I bet it can be a little hard setting these things up.The Afcad author never mentioned crosswind runways or the additional ILS(s) .. so ,,,, as far as I can tell I got it installed OK.

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Not sure why the extra ILS. Don't see any reason for them. I recommend checking out Al Wheeler's CCC (Central Cal Coast) scenery as a possible alternative.scott s..

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Go back into AFCAD and click on the properties of the unwanted rwys and tick the boxes closed for take-off/landing then ATC will not mention them.Vololiberista

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Vololiberista,They are already checked for runway Reciprocal End and Base End .. closed.ATIS still thinks they are all active!

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Vololiberista,They are already checked for runway Reciprocal End and Base End .. closed.ATIS still thinks they are all active!
That's not what happens on my system!! However, you can redesignate the rogue rwys with a letter instead of a number. If ATC give you a lettered rwy ask for a rwy change.Vololiberista

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Vololiberista ,No, not ATC ... I am not flying yet.I am at the gate listening to ATIS information.ATIS speaks ... each runway for takeoff/landing runways!

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Vololiberista says

Go back into AFCAD and click on the properties of the unwanted rwys and tick the boxes closed for take-off/landing then ATC will not mention them.
Vololiberista ,No, not ATC ... I am not flying yet.I am at the gate listening to ATIS information.ATIS speaks ... each runway for takeoff/landing runways!
Vololiberista seems to be misunderstanding what ATC is vs ATIS. When we xwind runways they must be set at the North Latitude 85.00000 so ATC does not use them for arrival planes regardless of number or letter.ATIS will speak all the runways available including the 10x10 fake runways that make up the xwind coding. Keep in mind that all the runways will be announced as takeoff and landing only when the airport is VMC. If the airport is IMC then ATIS will not say the xwind runways are active for landing. This is because there is no approach code for the 10x10 runways. When MS and the ACES team sets a runway to closed they bypass the ATIS coding in both FS9 and FSX. When we add a runway and then close it the new runway gets passed through the ATIS code and we cannot turn that off. What MS does when developing an airport and what we can do is not the same thing because of different rules used.The AFCAD in question (above with pictures) is somewhat useless even with the xwind runway coding. If this airport becomes IMC only 2 runways will be used. Winds from the east and the ILS approach to runway 7 is the active. Winds from the west and the VOR approach to runway 25 is the active. All those additional ILS runway ends mean nothing to the ATC system since no approach code bgl exist. Designers that use airport enhancement utility's continue to add ILS's to a runway end that are not recognized by ATC and are always called a visual approach type runway. If weather becomes IMC those so called ILS runways are closed by ATC since they are not recognized as a ILS runway. jim

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Jim,Thank you for the detailed explanation.It looks like I will now search for another KSBA airport Afcad.

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