Thanks to the new LuscombeX_8A and 8AF along with being about to purchase Corenado's new Bonanza I am into Virtual panel modifying for the first time. These two like I am sure many future contributions that are pending do not have 2D panels. I have modified 2d panels to my on preference for years but the 3D modification bit is a new animal to me. For instance, 2d Modifications for the Aeroworx Kingair worked fine in FSX and I ignored the 3D panel. However, I have seen posts where others also modified the 3d panel so surely it can be done with satisfaction.First of all, can FS Panel Studio be used, and if so, what settings/options should be implemented? When I bring the Luscombe panel up in Panel Studio, all I get is a black display. Under "Background Bitmap Properties" it says "File" No background bitmap." I also get an error window that says: "Error, In Window00, the entry for Gauge00 has a missing Name and will be skipped."My efforts at simply editing the panel.cfg have also been futile. I really do not understand all of the remmed panel.cfg gauges that still show up in the panel, nor that removing the slashes on some gauges fail to let them display (i.e. left and right mag switches). To say that I don't know what I am doing would be an understatement. Secondly, is there a PRACTICAL tutorial anywhere specific to 3D Virtual Panel modifications?Thanks:RTH

You might be able to get help here http://www.fsdeveloper.com/

Is there a PRACTICAL tutorial anywhere specific to 3D Virtual Panel modifications?Thanks:RTH

Not that I have found... but you can pretty much do it all, just using Notepad and MSPaint.The difficulty with VC editing, is that you are limited in where you can put gauges andhow big they can be. Also, the background bitmap is in many cases not editable, and the ultimate problem, can have 3d knobs sticking out of it that cannot be eliminated.Having said that, the Bonanza can be outfitted with a set of RXP gauges that make it lookquite spectacular. Have a look at the Carenado Support forum for screenshots.I should add that some gauges in the VC can be part of the model and cannot be changedat all.

Thanks for the help guys.I'll chew on your information for a while. Every time one thinks he has FS by the tail, there is a new challenge isn't it. Keeps things from being boring anyway.If a popup panel will work, I will just put my RXP530 on a secondary window for the Carenado Bonanza. In any case I will peek at the information on their site as you recommended.Thanks again.RTH

I would ask at the "MSFS Aircraft & Panel Design Forum" here at AVSIM http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showforum=122The knowledge base there is huge. I'm pretty sure you'll find help there.Wolfgang

Thanks for the help guys.I'll chew on your information for a while. Every time one thinks he has FS by the tail, there is a new challenge isn't it. Keeps things from being boring anyway.If a popup panel will work, I will just put my RXP530 on a secondary window for the Carenado Bonanza. In any case I will peek at the information on their site as you recommended.Thanks again.RTH

If all you want to do for now, is add the 530 to the Bonanza, try this: [Window01]position=8window_size=0.297619,0.342857visible=0zorder=2ident=794gauge00=rxpGNS!GNS530,0,0,100,100and, in the rxpgns.ini file:[GNS530]Popup=794

Thanks loads Bert!RTH

If all you want to do for now, is add the 530 to the Bonanza, try this: [Window01]position=8window_size=0.297619,0.342857visible=0zorder=2ident=794gauge00=rxpGNS!GNS530,0,0,100,100and, in the rxpgns.ini file:[GNS530]Popup=794

If you have FS Panel Studio, it can be indirectly useful to assist you in modding a VC, since you can use it to identify gauge names and such, but you are better off doing the VC mods themselves via Notepad. The gist of how you go about it is slightly different to modding 2D panels, where you have a bit more freedom, whereas in VCs, there are some limitations you have to work around. The chief limitation, is the fact that the gauges and stuff in a VC effectively have a hole in the panel texture, through which they appear, so the positioning of any replacement gauge has to be such that it too will line up with the hole which the original gauge showed through. Once you get your head around that, it becomes a bit easier to get a grasp of how to tweak stuff. To help you, here's an example of that...Here's a picture of my partially modified AeroSim 737 (which is an FS9 aircraft, but is in FSX here). I have had to put FSX-suitable gauges into it to get it to work in FSX, since the original FS9 gauges crash FSX, and you can see in this shot that the process is well under way:Notice that the TCAS gauge, which I have highlighted with a yellow box, is fairly central in the panel gap for it, and that there is no gauge in the slot next to it, since I've commented out that gauge in the panel config file for the moment until I choose a suitable replacement for it. Below is an excerpt from the aircraft's panel config file relating to this bit of the VC. You can see I have used gauges from the Aeroworx B200 and the CLS 747, so that TCAS is a CLS 747-200 gauge:gauge26=CLS_B742R_FSX!ADI, 368,275,137,124gauge27=CLS_B742R_FSX!ALTIMETER, 400,3,106,109gauge28=CLS_B742R_FSX!VS TCAS, 395,397,115,115gauge29=awb2002!eadi_turnslip_vc, 361,406,34,11Now, let's modify that TCAS gauge position value and see what happens; here is the text in the panel config file, in which I have changed the value '395' to '345', so you can see the effect that has:gauge28=CLS_B742R_FSX!VS TCAS, 345,397,115,115This is what happens to the VC when I do that. I save the file in Notepad, and reset the FSX flight to see the change, there is no need to restart FSX or reload a new flight, simply resetting it will show you the change:From this we can surmise that the first two values (395 and 397) are the horizontal and vertical position of that gauge in the VC on that particular panel, and it was the first (horizontal) value that I changed, which resulted in the gauge shifting position to the left a bit. The two other values (115 and 115) are the actual size of the gauge as it will appear, so I can alter those values to make the gauge bigger or smaller within the window available for it in the VC.Getting that stuff right is what you have to faff about with when altering VC gauges, but generally speaking, if you swap one round gauge for another round gauge, by simply copying and pasting the gauge name over the original one, then you won't be far out and won't have to do a lot of tweaking. This is where FS Panel Studio comes in handy, because you can use it to easily preview suitable gauges, and if you right click on them and choose 'edit this gauge' or 'swap', it is easy to determine the names of gauges, and you can simply highlight the gauge name text, copy it, then paste that into the Panel config file in Notepad, save it, and Bob's yer uncle.Keep in mind that you can do this on the fly in FSX, all you have to do is make a tweak to the panel config file with the plane loaded up in FSX, save your change in the panel text file, and then reset the FSX flight for it to load in your change, the default key for that in FSX is Control plus the Colon key (i.e. Cntrl+:)Hope that helps a bit.Al

Thanks Al:I think I understand what you described. However, I was not trying to replace an existing gauge, but to add a new one in a different location. Your description of "the fact that the gauges and stuff in a VC effectively have a hole in the panel texture, through which they appear," is where I am probably off base. I am ignorant as to how to virtually punch another hole to add a gauge if that is possible. As I mentioned in my original post, all I see with FS Panel Studio (LuscombeX panel) is a black display. However, there may be an option to setup Panel Studio where it would look at the panel that I am overlooking.Thanks again:RTH

If you have FS Panel Studio, it can be indirectly useful to assist you in modding a VC, since you can use it to identify gauge names and such, but you are better off doing the VC mods themselves via Notepad. The gist of how you go about it is slightly different to modding 2D panels, where you have a bit more freedom, whereas in VCs, there are some limitations you have to work around. The chief limitation, is the fact that the gauges and stuff in a VC effectively have a hole in the panel texture, through which they appear, so the positioning of any replacement gauge has to be such that it too will line up with the hole which the original gauge showed through. Once you get your head around that, it becomes a bit easier to get a grasp of how to tweak stuff. To help you, here's an example of that...Here's a picture of my partially modified AeroSim 737 (which is an FS9 aircraft, but is in FSX here). I have had to put FSX-suitable gauges into it to get it to work in FSX, since the original FS9 gauges crash FSX, and you can see in this shot that the process is well under way:Notice that the TCAS gauge, which I have highlighted with a yellow box, is fairly central in the panel gap for it, and that there is no gauge in the slot next to it, since I've commented out that gauge in the panel config file for the moment until I choose a suitable replacement for it. Below is an excerpt from the aircraft's panel config file relating to this bit of the VC. You can see I have used gauges from the Aeroworx B200 and the CLS 747, so that TCAS is a CLS 747-200 gauge:gauge26=CLS_B742R_FSX!ADI, 368,275,137,124gauge27=CLS_B742R_FSX!ALTIMETER, 400,3,106,109gauge28=CLS_B742R_FSX!VS TCAS, 395,397,115,115gauge29=awb2002!eadi_turnslip_vc, 361,406,34,11Now, let's modify that TCAS gauge position value and see what happens; here is the text in the panel config file, in which I have changed the value '395' to '345', so you can see the effect that has:gauge28=CLS_B742R_FSX!VS TCAS, 345,397,115,115This is what happens to the VC when I do that. I save the file in Notepad, and reset the FSX flight to see the change, there is no need to restart FSX or reload a new flight, simply resetting it will show you the change:From this we can surmise that the first two values (395 and 397) are the horizontal and vertical position of that gauge in the VC on that particular panel, and it was the first (horizontal) value that I changed, which resulted in the gauge shifting position to the left a bit. The two other values (115 and 115) are the actual size of the gauge as it will appear, so I can alter those values to make the gauge bigger or smaller within the window available for it in the VC.Getting that stuff right is what you have to faff about with when altering VC gauges, but generally speaking, if you swap one round gauge for another round gauge, by simply copying and pasting the gauge name over the original one, then you won't be far out and won't have to do a lot of tweaking. This is where FS Panel Studio comes in handy, because you can use it to easily preview suitable gauges, and if you right click on them and choose 'edit this gauge' or 'swap', it is easy to determine the names of gauges, and you can simply highlight the gauge name text, copy it, then paste that into the Panel config file in Notepad, save it, and Bob's yer uncle.Keep in mind that you can do this on the fly in FSX, all you have to do is make a tweak to the panel config file with the plane loaded up in FSX, save your change in the panel text file, and then reset the FSX flight for it to load in your change, the default key for that in FSX is Control plus the Colon key (i.e. Cntrl+:)Hope that helps a bit.Al

I thought this topic looked familiar... (I've pasted my response from another forum)

VC panels are different animals.. in many ways.There is no "background" for them, as all texturing in a VC is "on" the model itself. A background is for a 2D, or pop-up panel (which is what a 2D panel essentially is).Early VCs did use big, invisible polygons, onto which several gauges are placed. It's kinda like a 2D panel, in that the cfg coordinates allow you to; move, replace, resize gauges.. but you still have to work around the fixed parts of the VC model.Later, more advanced VCs will have individual polygons for each gauge.. and the gauges are cfg oriented to an imaginary BIG "background", and that background is mapped so that only a certain part of it is mapped to the gauge polygon (that's why the cfg coordinates seem random). You can replace/change these gauges, but are limited to what will fit onto the individual polygon, and where they're located..The most advanced gauge-type in a VC, is where the gauge itself is part of the model, and things like needles are actually model parts; tagged and animated. If all of the gauges are modeled,and there is no 2D panel at all.. you might not even need a panel folder ..

And your latest question:

I think I understand what you described. However, I was not trying to replace an existing gauge, but to add a new one in a different location. Your description of "the fact that the gauges and stuff in a VC effectively have a hole in the panel texture, through which they appear," is where I am probably off base. I am ignorant as to how to virtually punch another hole to add a gauge if that is possible. As I mentioned in my original post, all I see with FS Panel Studio (LuscombeX panel) is a black display. However, there may be an option to setup Panel Studio where it would look at the panel that I am overlooking.

The "holes" are one of the modeled limitations that I mentioned.. but don't represent the biggest limitation when it comes to adding gauges to a VC. I'm attaching an image to help illustrate.."Crude" VCs can have a large, single polyon on which to project gauges (top image). It's similar to a 2D panel, in that the cfg coordinates make sense, and you can add/move/replace gauges onto that single polygon, much like a 2D panel.However.. most VC gauges are projected onto single polygons (you get better resolution this way). The cgf coordinates place them onto the $bitmap, and then THAT bitmap is UVW mapped so that just the desired gauge is mapped to its respective, single polygon (why you cannot place gauges anywhere you choose.. ala where there isn't a a mapped polygon "screen". The cfg coordinates seem illogical, becuase they're realtive to that $bitmap... ie.. an airspeed gauge that's at the bottom of the $bitmap could be mapped to a polygon that's where you'd expect an airspeed indicator to be (top left).Think of it as cramming all your gauges onto a square sheet, and then "cookie-cutting" each gauge from the square sheet and sticking it on the desired polygon.EDIT: Note that both the single polyon and/or individual polygons themselves are invisible.. normally placed just barely in front of the VC surface.. and where applicable, "inside" of a modeled "hole"..

And... The reason PanelStudio can't find a background, is because the background is essentially the $bitmap.. which is just a temporary modeling reference. It's not needed for the final VC, so it's not incuded in a finished model.

Thanks for all the good information Brett:Looks like personal modifications are just about a thing of the past.Happy flying:RTH

Thanks for all the good information Brett:Looks like personal modifications are just about a thing of the past.Happy flying:RTH

Nope, they are alive and well, but limited by what the vendors build into their models :( Carenado, as a very welcome example, have released "optional customizable models" with their Bonanza!

Hello again:I stand corrected.Tomorrow I will bite on this what I am sure is a bird of a fine feather.A new learning curve is about to begin. Now to start reviewing the Corenado forum carefully!Respectfully:RTHNope, they are alive and well, but limited by what the vendors build into their models :( Carenado, as a very welcome example, have released "optional customizable models" with their Bonanza!

And... The reason PanelStudio can't find a background, is because the background is essentially the $bitmap.. which is just a temporary modeling reference. It's not needed for the final VC, so it's not incuded in a finished model.

If you have FS Panel Studio (latest version!), you can display the VC gauge layout, then use the built-in function to save a bitmap of the entire area. Load the saved image into Photoshop and crop/resize the image to 1024x1024 (or whatever is appropriate.You can then use that image as a "background" and know precisely what areas have which gauge, and get a pretty good idea of what might "fit" as a replacement... :(