Hi guys,Does anyone know of a payware light twin for FSX/FS9/X-Plane with a good flight model to practice asymmetric flight? I'm currently doing my Multi and IFR Rating IRL in a Duchess and I'm having big problems with asymmetric flight. FYI I tried the Just Flight Duchess demo but it's pretty poor in the FDE department. (IMO The rudder forces needed to keep straight without rudder trim are so high that it could break someone's leg)Thanks.

This is easy - the Real Air Beechcraft Duke.

This is easy - the Real Air Beechcraft Duke.

lol I was thinking.... is this a for real question? hahYeah get the Duke, and get the Reality XP GPS unit too:http://realairsimulations.com/duke09_rxp.php?page=duke09_rxp

HelloProbably the best available is the Realair Dukehttp://www.realairsimulations.com/home.php?page=homereview herehttp://www.mutleyshangar.com/features/mutley/duke.htm

Hi guys,Does anyone know of a payware light twin for FSX/FS9/X-Plane with a good flight model to practice asymmetric flight? I'm currently doing my Multi and IFR Rating IRL in a Duchess and I'm having big problems with asymmetric flight. Xplane does it a little better for my money but then for me the general fm is too twitchy. FYI I tried the Just Flight Duchess demo but it's pretty poor in the FDE department. (IMO The rudder forces needed to keep straight without rudder trim are so high that it could break someone's leg)Thanks.

I also did my multi training in a Duchess.I have the JF Duchess, Real Air Duke, and Carenado Senecca, Eaglesoft Commanche, and the Da42. I think each has their positives and negatives but if you are looking for the complete real feel of asymmetric flight I am not sure fs is capable of it. It certainly seems to have trouble with prop sounds also. Xplane I think does the asymmetric part a little better, but then I find the other aspects of the model twitchy and overdone.I do use the sim to train for single engine flight, but more for the procedures than the actual feel. Doing pitch, power, drag, identify, verify and feather a couple hundred times on the sim is very helpful when you will do it relatively less times before getting the license. Doing it at uncomfortable phases in the flight that you may not even do in rw training is also valuable.You might want to look at your joystick sensitivity because I haven't felt the rudder forces you mention on the Just flight-though I typically feel that way in the twins I have flown-maybe I don't have your strength or at least no counter rotating props anymore-lol. Of course the hardware rudder pedals on fs don't really give the right forces anyway.Speaking of training purposes-I wish there was a program for fs that would really do random failures such as engines. I am not really interested in the one's that have passenger ratings etc. but the fs failure mode is too predictable. It would be nice to have a program that would fail either engine when you least expect it along with electrical, instruments-but most importantly not when you expect it.

Whichever model you settle on; you can adjust the asymetric effect by moving the engines in/out laterally ..only visual side-effect will be that startup smoke won't match engine location.. but you shouldn't have to move them very far.Then play with rudder/aileron effectiveness..*make a backup of the cgf file first

As Geofa notes, I don't think FS is really up to the task as far as really practicing every aspect of a true engine failure in a twin, so you probably are best using it simply for the procedural aspect of drilling the vital actions into yourself, which conversely, is something that FS is really excellent for, even though it is primarily an entertainment product.Some FS twins do 'engine out' better than others, notably the Flight 1 Cessna 441, but it is hardly a light twin in the traditional sense, since it models an aircraft with Garrett turboprop engines that was intended to be a step up towards jets. However, even though it does do asymmetric stuff pretty well, since it will not very likely be the kind of aircraft you'd be doing your rating in, it is of dubious utility as a training tool for that purpose. With a bit of FSUIPC tweaking of your rudder controls, the Just Flight Duchess can actually be made into a fairly creditable performer, so you might want to look into doing that, since it does have the merit of assisting with cockpit familiarity.Al

lol I was thinking.... is this a for real question? hahYeah get the Duke, and get the Reality XP GPS unit too:http://realairsimulations.com/duke09_rxp.php?page=duke09_rxp

Yeah I thought about the Duke but I may have missed some others e.g. Dreamfleet, that's why I'm asking.

You might want to look at your joystick sensitivity because I haven't felt the rudder forces you mention on the Just flight-though I typically feel that way in the twins I have flown-maybe I don't have your strength or at least no counter rotating props anymore-lol. Of course the hardware rudder pedals on fs don't really give the right forces anyway.

With regards to the high rudder forces I'm actually talking about real life, sorry I messed up during editing.

As Brett says you may only need to move the engines position in the aircraft.cfg.Here are a couple of lines from the RealAir Duke's aircraft.cfg to show how the Duke's virtual engines are located a bit wider than in the model. FSX uses these engine locations (longitudinal, lateral and vertical) when calculating where the thrust pushes from.

Engine.0 = -3.5, -7.0, 0.0	   //NOTE!! exaggerated lateral distance from centre in order to promote correct assymetryEngine.1 = -3.5,  7.0, 0.0		//NOTE!! exaggerated lateral distance from centre in order to promote correct assymetry

Note the NOTE!!s. If the only problem you have with the JF Duchess is the assymetric performance you may like to try tweaking the aircraft engine position.Otherwise get the Duke.

With regards to the high rudder forces I'm actually talking about real life, sorry I messed up during editing.

This addresses something I've been wishing for for years. We need improvement in the hardware. You can only take a fm so far, and most good ones do, but if the feeling and reaction in the hardware is nothing like rw then there is a disconnect. The spring yokes/pedals can't really do a good job on the forces, and the fb sticks I have tried feel like a video game to me.It would be nice to have some force feed back rudder pedals, because as you corrected that is one of the biggest shocks when you first face an engine out-your leg hurts from all the rudder pressure!

The young instructor who helped my cut my instrument teeth, was fresh off his ME checkride.. His critical engine failure approach was compounded by a critical X-wind. Not only was his right leg exhausted.. he ran out of pedal , and had to abort the whole thing.

The young instructor who helped my cut my instrument teeth, was fresh off his ME checkride.. His critical engine failure approach was compounded by a critical X-wind. Not only was his right leg exhausted.. he ran out of pedal , and had to abort the whole thing.

Wow... I admit I don't even have rudder pedals, just a twist on the joystick. Are the CH or Saitek ones any good?I once tried a set of CH pedals in FS2004 a while back at a friends house and found them too twitchy and loose, errr not realistic - we were flying the Dreamfleet archer II, similar to what I got my ppl in. Then again I spose anything would be better than my twist!

Wow... I admit I don't even have rudder pedals, just a twist on the joystick. Are the CH or Saitek ones any good?I once tried a set of CH pedals in FS2004 a while back at a friends house and found them too twitchy and loose, errr not realistic - we were flying the Dreamfleet archer II, similar to what I got my ppl in. Then again I spose anything would be better than my twist!

I've had the Ch since they first came out which is a long time and they are very reliable-even have survived a puppy chewing thru the wires.But without a doubt they don't feel like rudder pedals-they do however give the coordination aspect.It would be nice since Ch seems to support flight simming and the lower end hardware controls market if they came out with an improvement after all these years.

I've had the Ch since they first came out which is a long time and they are very reliable-even have survived a puppy chewing thru the wires.

Excellent, my dog chewed part of my track ir clip.... Those logitech G940 pedals look a lot better but Im not about to spend 300 bucks on that.... my better half would have my head!

I will say that rudder pedals (I have Saitek ones myself) do tend to reinforce the 'muscle memory' of correct flying procedures in the sim. That's kind of in the same way that Track-IR makes you tend to automatically think about looking in the direction of a turn before you make it (which in my opinion makes them a great safety asset in drilling into us the need to keep a good lookout in the circuit). Rudder pedals are especially good for gliders in FS if you also fly them in real life (which is good news for me) because unlike on most powered aircraft, where the propwash tends to assist the rudder, with no propwash in a glider, you really have to give most gliders a serious 'boot-full' of rudder to overcome the adverse yaw which having a 20 metre-plus wingspan in such a small aircraft engenders! So again, they are an excellent procedural training tool.Of course you don't get the aerodynamic loads on your FS sticks and rudder pedals which the real thing produces, but in the case of the Saitek rudder pedals, they do have a good adjustment dial which can add you preferred pressure preset to them very easily. Not ideal of course, I'd prefer some realistic force feedback on them, but better than nothing.Anyone who is serious about simulating flying accurately, or indeed using FS as a training aid for the real world, should definitely use rudder pedals. Since it is entirely possible to overload the tailfin of even a GA aircraft with too much sideways force by sticking in too much rudder, good rudder technique in terms of how much deflection you put in (regardless of aerodynamic load simulation) is another good safety feature which practicing with simulator pedals can engender in real world pilots.Al