Barefoot Bandit ! Airplane Thief

[mgh 89]

Now imagine this, you stood by and did absolutely nothing, your over-indulgance creates hardship for that person in somalia because his country has poor education, health, and little in the way of a way outThat in itself, you contributed to their murder, they died in a country with no money and high crime rates because in part - you didn't give all you had besides the basic necessities. You contributed to their murder.

You object to a self-demonstrated thief deing called an amoral sociopath but then you say that everyone else here is contibuting to murder because we who don't give all we have besides the basic necessities to Somalia - even though you don't do that yourself. Is there any wonder the word hypocrisy comes to mind.You economics are as flawed as your morality. If we all stopped buying cars, computers, televisions and other consumer goods there would be mass unemployment and the world economy would collapse so there'd be nothing at all to spare for poor countries. It would all go on supporting those who'd lost their jobs and we'd all be poorer. The only reason a country can afford to provide aid to another is because it is prosperous and is capable of generating surplus funds to give away for development. Why do you think these poor countires can't do that themselves? It's because many of them are subsistence economies that just can't create any surplus wealth. Dragging the developed countries economies down will just make things worse for poor countries.If you are serious about Somalia why don't you sell up, join a volunteer organsation and actually go out there yourself to help on the ground? Others do, why not you? Until then I suggest you stop preaching your flawed morality at the rest of us.

[rightseater 0]

When I see the same people who can afford to purchase a $500,000 aircraft calling for the heads of Wall Street, calling for the heads of health insurance companies... calling for the heads of oil companies... all of which have now had a far greater negative impact upon our way of life than this kid... then, and only then will I offer any form of simpathy.Until then, I will assume that this kid's actions had a far lesser impact on them than all of the other things combined.This kid is in no way that big a deal. And this rush to treat him as if he's the 21st century's biggest criminal is patently absurd.

I didn't realize it was the people with $500,000 aircraft doing that. I thought it was people in this forum, whose finances we know nothing about. However, my G58 certainly isn't cheap every month, and I do call for the heads of those who caused economic strife, and therefore look forward to your sympathy. But we disagree about who caused it, at least in part.......just one part to be exact.

[RyanB 0]

I disagree,Things would balance themselves out, the world would reach a balance in communism.Instead, we just inflate our own market and get filthy rich because we can! Go America right mgh? It's apparent that you, as many other americans, care about nobody other than "me myself and I", the thought, or idea, that you might be doing it wrong (Working for yourself (capitalism), rather than working for others(Communism))- even though you've worked so hard to be a model citizen.....well that just screws it all up for you, doesn't it? As such it's an unacceptable ideology. Isn't it? (Or perhaps that's my misconception? you seem very offended by my idea)Guess what I agree! but for other reasons, why? because nobody in this world wants to co-operate on anything (most of the time), even if there was another way we wouldn't do it if it meant it contradicted with what we wanted.The Oil problem? That's sticks and stones and not nearly as important as some of the things that happen elsewhere as well, infact, that was a result of our greed :).The fact of the matter is, I can't change these things, but I am knowledgable of them, and accept them at the very least.It's a card we're dealt with at birth, and unless there's a mass organization of people (on a grand scale) to fix something, it'll never get fixed...The biggest flaw of humanity? the desire to better one's self, competition.It's a trait that was created apparently for the passing of genes, but now it's just a camel on our backs.Infact, that trait is the one that caused Mr. Moore to steal.It's the reason that that man in somalia doesn't mind killing another humanIt's the reason we as americans stand by and do absolutely nothing beyond what doesn't inconvenience us as "Civilized" people. We can be categorized as those contributing to the problem rather than being the solution, we never genuinely become the solution - until we give all that we can to make the world over a better place.One billion starving people, saved from a painful death, and receiving some sort of education to better themselves, their families and their community?Snap damn, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, but it won't happen. I mentioned the reason above.Remember this - You participated in standing by. You are guilty just by indulging in what you don't need, whether you believe so or not.The fact of the matter? his crimes un-important and mean little in the scheme of things, to judge him is frankly rediculous as well. when taken into account your own actions (or lack there-of) which are against humanity. You expect me to change that? Orly?The fundamental problem with changing it? I can't change YOU. because I can't change you? it's absolutely futile, it's also behavior observable in nearly all animals.Thus I accept who I am, and the flaws of my humanity. You're in denial, and the hippies just haven't figure out that they can't save the world.Simple right?

You object to a self-demonstrated thief deing called an amoral sociopath but then you say that everyone else here is contibuting to murder because we who don't give all we have besides the basic necessities to Somalia - even though you don't do that yourself. Is there any wonder the word hypocrisy comes to mind.You economics are as flawed as your morality. If we all stopped buying cars, computers, televisions and other consumer goods there would be mass unemployment and the world economy would collapse so there'd be nothing at all to spare for poor countries. It would all go on supporting those who'd lost their jobs and we'd all be poorer. The only reason a country can afford to provide aid to another is because it is prosperous and is capable of generating surplus funds to give away for development. Why do you think these poor countires can't do that themselves? It's because many of them are subsistence economies that just can't create any surplus wealth. Dragging the developed countries economies down will just make things worse for poor countries.If you are serious about Somalia why don't you sell up, join a volunteer organsation and actually go out there yourself to help on the ground? Others do, why not you? Until then I suggest you stop preaching your flawed morality at the rest of us.

[mgh 89]

This kid is in no way that big a deal.

That applies to kids who pirate Flight Simulator add-ons?

[WarpD 824]

I didn't realize it was the people with $500,000 aircraft doing that. I thought it was people in this forum, whose finances we know nothing about. However, my G58 certainly isn't cheap every month, and I do call for the heads of those who caused economic strife, and therefore look forward to your sympathy. But we disagree about who caused it, at least in part.......just one part to be exact.

And you just proved my point. No one in this thread has shown where they have been harmed by this kid, thus any labels or attitudes they have against him is unrealistic and unjust. They were not harmed one bit.

[mgh 89]

Things would balance themselves out, the world would reach a balance in communism.

Again you show your lack of understanding of basic economics.Suppose a skilled worker currently earns, say, $50,000/year. Following your advice almost everyone stops buying the product he makes and his earnings fall to $25,000/year. How does the missing $25,000/year get transfered to the poor in Somalia? The simple answer is it doesn't - it just disappears and is a net loss to the world economy. It won't magically appear in Somalia as you seem to think.Have you lived under communism? If not I suggest you try it before you advocate it. There are still some places left. You should try living in People's Republic of China, Republic of Cuba, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Socialist Republic of Vietnam, or Democratic People's Republic of Korea. You still haven't told us when are you packing your bags and heading for Somalia to put your principles into practice and give some practical help.

[RyanB 0]

You should understand what the basis of a true communism is,Not what a dictatorship, or an oligarchy is (Ala the places you've mentioned)Communism implies emphasis of the members of a community, but in many countries it's just a way of suckering people so you can get on top. (Ala dicatorship)How many times do I have to say it? I'm not selling my stuff or going to somalia. I'm human and flawed, what are you?godly dog??Humans are subject to being human. I apologize for not being able to get around this, no pretty way to put it (Shrugs).Money's the way of economic balance in the world, investing it into somalia, is investing it into somalia, it doesn't magically dissappear as you seem to think - a school can... Really be built

Again you show your lack of understanding of basic economics.Suppose a skilled worker currently earns, say, $50,000/year. Following your advice almost everyone stops buying the product he makes and his earnings fall to $25,000/year. How does the missing $25,000/year get transfered to the poor in Somalia? The simple answer is it doesn't - it just disappears and is a net loss to the world economy. It won't magically appear in Somalia as you seem to think.Have you lived under communism? If not I suggest you try it before you advocate it. There are still some places left. You should try living in People's Republic of China, Republic of Cuba, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Socialist Republic of Vietnam, or Democratic People's Republic of Korea. You still haven't told us when are you packing your bags and heading for Somalia to put your principles into practice and give some practical help.

[rightseater 0]

And you just proved my point. No one in this thread has shown where they have been harmed by this kid, thus any labels or attitudes they have against him is unrealistic and unjust. They were not harmed one bit.

That's ridiculous. I wasn't harmed by Charles Manson, but I don't find it unrealistic or unjust to label him. These crimes, of course, are not murder (like we all apparently commit daily just by living, according to Ryan), but as the victim of burglary, I consider those pereptrators horrible, and since I know what it is to be a victim of this crime, I don't find it unreasonable for me to suggest the same about someone who does it to someone else. Going airborne for awhile, so everyone be good.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Looking at this thread, I have to really wonder. Ryan is in here hijacking a thread, discussing politics. He sounds socially competent and on the face of it, we are killing off our world by living the life we do. We're polluting the atmosphere when we fly, when we drive, when we ship goods across the water. But there's something else going on. I call it the "AntiChrist"--and I am not using that in a religious sense, lest someone try to bury my point in some nonsense. The difference between good and evil, is good will not drive you insane with puzzles you cannot solve (such as "by living in our world, you kill"). If you have any type of faith, life is eternal. We all help each other, life goes on. I believe that if someone's life is lost slaving over some oil well to feed our energy glut, that my "God" has a place for them in the universe for their sacrifice. That's as close to spirituality as I dare come in these forums, and I hope Tom gives me some allowance. But it has to be said. -John

[RyanB 0]

Contribute toNot commit. I've never said commit. (If I have, it wasn't the word I was thinking of)

That's ridiculous. I wasn't harmed by Charles Manson, but I don't find it unrealistic or unjust to label him. These crimes, of course, are not murder (like we all apparently commit daily just by living, according to Ryan), but as the victim of burglary, I consider those pereptrators horrible, and since I know what it is to be a victim of this crime, I don't find it unreasonable for me to suggest the same about someone who does it to someone else. Going airborne for awhile, so everyone be good.

[RyanB 0]

I can't say I think that's fair, Ryan Hijacked the thread? I did it all on my own?I stated a reason why I don't believe you should call the kid an amoral sociopath, and then people started criticizing my reasoning. I'm not going to say I didn't contribute to this thread hijacking (or that I'm not of blame), but honestly? (Look at page one, it went downhill and lots of people contributed). Now we're on an argument of politics, everybody is.I didn't do that all by myself. :(

Looking at this thread, I have to really wonder. Ryan is in here hijacking a thread, discussing politics. He sounds socially competent and on the face of it, we are killing off our world by living the life we do. We're polluting the atmosphere when we fly, when we drive, when we ship goods across the water. But there's something else going on. I call it the "AntiChrist"--and I am not using that in a religious sense, lest someone try to bury my point in some nonsense. The difference between good and evil, is good will not drive you insane with puzzles you cannot solve (such as "by living in our world, you kill"). If you have any type of faith, life is eternal. We all help each other, life goes on. I believe that if someone's life is lost slaving over some oil well to feed our energy glut, that my "God" has a place for them in the universe for their sacrifice. That's as close to spirituality as I dare come in these forums, and I hope Tom gives me some allowance. But it has to be said. -John

[mgh 89]

I'm human and flawed, what are you?

I'm human and flawed too but don't presume to tell others to do what I'm not prepared to do. There's a word for people like that.

Money's the way of economic balance in the world, investing it into somalia, is investing it into somalia, it doesn't magically dissappear as you seem to think - a school can... Really be built

Please explain how if a worker in a developed country loses $25,000/year the same sum re-appears in Somalia. Remember, the worker's losing that because people aren't spending and company sales are down - a pattern that would be repeated across the economy. Sales and incomes would be down everywhere.

[RyanB 0]

I never told you to sell your stuff, you presume that I did.Go read it again.Understand, communism. Working for the benefit of the community.You're a capitalist, you believe in capital markets where there's a top dog. Communism has no top dog - everyone is......equal.Communism is very hard to achieve successfully given human nature, even in small samples of the population. So I won't waste my breath on it, or my money. I accept that capitalism is as good as it will get, doesn't mean I think it's necessarilly all that good though.

I'm human and flawed too but don't presume to tell others to do what I'm not prepared to do. There's a word for people like that.Please explain how if a worker in a developed country loses $25,000/year the same sum re-appears in Somalia. Remember, the worker's losing that because people aren't spending and company sales are down - a pattern that would be repeated across the economy. Sales and incomes would be down everywhere.

[mgh 89]

And you just proved my point. No one in this thread has shown where they have been harmed by this kid, thus any labels or attitudes they have against him is unrealistic and unjust. They were not harmed one bit.

I don't buy add-ons so I've not been harmed by pirates thus any labels or attitudes I have against them is unrealistic and unjust. I was not harmed one bit.

[HUSSAR 272]

Mods, I think this thread has gone far enough.I have seen this all before and it usually results in someone getting banned. I can see who the target is and IMO I think the forum rules have been broken by more than one person and I do not agree with how this person is being baited and attacked.This does not seem to be a civil, productive debate any longer and the thread should be locked.