Fact: The kid did zero physical harm to any human being.Fact: The kid broke laws... but in doing so harmed only material posessions.Reality check: If you think stealing/harming material possessions makes one 'horrible' (it is essentially what he did)... then you are indeed driven by the greed of material wealth.Cars, planes, food, etc... all can be replaced. A human life can not. I stand by my original statement that many of you are attaching labels to this kid that do not apply.Oh... and life is fair... man is not. Man is not life, but simply living it.

Can I assume that, should I take the time to search the forums, I will not find any comments from you which use similiar titles to those who have pirated Eaglesoft software? Not an accusation, you may very well have never made such statements, but I seem to recall a thread where you had choice words for pirates. This thief did not NEED to steal anything for survival. He could have turned himself into authorities and I am most certain he would have been housed and fed.

I agree, but there have been less than civil comments towards me, and I've made some less than civil comments in return to those. perhaps these things should be moderated yes?I don't practice selling my stuff because I accept my failures as a human, they do not bother me though i know they are true. I am not preaching for anyone to sell their stuff as you are to me. I am just "Preaching" that we are greedy and we contribute to the deaths of millions each year.I know it's true, doesn't mean I'm going to act on it and sell all my stuff, just like I don't expect anyone else to do so.

First, I'll moderate as I see most productive to the continued civility and welcoming environment we strive to provide at AVSIM. I see nothing wrong with the direction this topic has taken so long as folks can refrain from the vile personal attacks that typically get threads locked. If Tom comes along and decides this topic needs locked, he can do so, and Geof and David are more than welcome to do so if they wish as well. Until then, I see nothing wrong with a good debate. Nobody is forced to participate in this thread. And once again, I have to ask why you fail to practice what you preach. You are keeping more than what you need, so why not get rid of it all? Why won't you rid yourself of your non-required posessions? EDIT* Here's a good start http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showforum=174. That's the Swap Meet forum, where you can start selling off your FS related items.

Fact: The kid did zero physical harm to any human being.Fact: The kid broke laws... but in doing so harmed only material posessions.Reality check: If you think stealing/harming material possessions makes one 'horrible' (it is essentially what he did)... then you are indeed driven by the greed of material wealth.Cars, planes, food, etc... all can be replaced. A human life can not. I stand by my original statement that many of you are attaching labels to this kid that do not apply.Oh... and life is fair... man is not. Man is not life, but simply living it.

Lets say he stole and crashed your plane. You'll think that's OK.EDIT:

..........I am just "Preaching" that we are greedy and we contribute to the deaths of millions each year...........

Feel free to do that elsewhere - political forums of some kind perhaps. This is not the place for it.

..............I don't practice selling my stuff because I accept my failures as a human, they do not bother me though i know they are true. I am not preaching for anyone to sell their stuff as you are to me.....................I know it's true, doesn't mean I'm going to act on it and sell all my stuff, just like I don't expect anyone else to do so.

And I would just like to say that this is extreme hypocrisy.......... and makes your preaching pointless. Why preach about something you yourself do not believe strongly enough to do.

I agree, but there have been less than civil comments towards me, and I've made some less than civil comments in return to those. perhaps these things should be moderated yes?I don't practice selling my stuff because I accept my failures as a human, they do not bother me though i know they are true. I am not preaching for anyone to sell their stuff as you are to me. I am just "Preaching" that we are greedy and we contribute to the deaths of millions each year.I know it's true, doesn't mean I'm going to act on it and sell all my stuff, just like I don't expect anyone else to do so.

Go ahead and send me a PM highlighting what comments you feel are in need of moderating and I will gladly address them as appropriately. I don't see it myself, at least not any that haven't been handled already by the poster(s), but if it exists you can point it out to me and I will handle it. Nobody, whether I agree with them or not, should have to be the recipient of a lack of civility. You'll have to forgive me for not seeing what you're talking about, but once again, point it out and I WILL address it accordingly.

I refuted comments primarily in self defense, and my understanding/justification is one of ideology, Thus at its basis, my accusers made it about me, but I also participated and for that I am guilty.I defended myself, so for that I apologize?Do you believe that you are some sort of perfect angel?I say we're all guilty! at a fundamental basis. what ye say to that? :(

The main individual who turned this into politics is you.The world can certanly benefit from a more social and responsible attitude. We are alredy seeing some improvements compared to the past. All we can do is keep improving. Who knows what will happen in the future - I hope something good.What you have done is to accuse everybody of being just as bad as some criminal kid who stole and crashed airplanes. Well that's just BS. You can't compare honest hard working people to a criminal or accuse them of causing deaths. Then you start talking about politics and greed, and frankly that is not a discussion for these forums.

Can I assume that, should I take the time to search the forums, I will not find any comments from you which use similiar titles to those who have pirated Eaglesoft software? Not an accusation, you may very well have never made such statements, but I seem to recall a thread where you had choice words for pirates. This thief did not NEED to steal anything for survival. He could have turned himself into authorities and I am most certain he would have been housed and fed.

Review what I've stated in this thread. At no point have I condoned his actions. Not once.amoral sociopath - Morals are taught, not ingrained within our psyche. Morals vary based on social background, ethnic background, where one lives, etc. Social behavior is taught, and I daresay Wall Street's 'social behavior' has done far more damage than this kid's."...a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others". - Patriot Act... nothing more needs to be said. Also, it's not a right to own anything. In any country.endangered the lives of many, many people - No more so than a person who speeds, and on that topic you will find most speeders feel it's their right to do so.I could go on and on... but the bottom line: The labels being assigned are inaccurate, improper and shows a desire to protect material wealth above all else.My complaint about my software being pirated doesn't protect material wealth... trust me... wealth isn't a factor in this at all. All of you need to grasp that I just don't make that much income off of making aircraft for FS. Just isn't there. It buys clothes for my child, food for the table, helps pay the utility bills and rent. No new cars, no stereo, no widescreen TV. It is such a significant difference between my loss versus the loss of a $500,000 aircraft that I will never, ever be in a position to afford (let alone convince myself of the actual value of doing so... after all, it's a recreational device of epic costs).

My complaint about my software being pirated doesn't protect material wealth... trust me... wealth isn't a factor in this at all. All of you need to grasp that I just don't make that much income off of making aircraft for FS. Just isn't there. It buys clothes for my child, food for the table, helps pay the utility bills and rent. No new cars, no stereo, no widescreen TV. It is such a significant difference between my loss versus the loss of a $500,000 aircraft that I will never, ever be in a position to afford (let alone convince myself of the actual value of doing so... after all, it's a recreational device of epic costs).

No argument about that, which I'm sure you know by now having discussed piracy with me an others in the forums. However, this young lad's theft's most certainly can affect those who are not as well off. I recall reading a sign at a grocery store several years ago discussing how stolen shopping carts were causing food prices to go up, and that would be for everyone, not just the rich folks. I know that when my home was robbed Dec 20th, 2008 it raised my insurance premiums. I have to pay more for my insurance because of thieves. Those robbers did not need to rob my house, nor did this person need to steal airplanes, cars, rob stores, and commit all the crimes he committed. He could have simply turned himself in and been housed and fed. I consider the burglars who invaded my home to be horrible people, and I see no difference with this guy.

Yes they've contributed to jobs,------------------------------By keeping anything more than you need, you are being problematic for someone in the world who has difficulty in finding a trade, or work, or an education, or some way to contribute. It's greed.

Ryan- When you purchased your computer, you contributed to the jobs & wellbeing of many workers in Asia as well as America.If you really wish to help the poor workers in other countries, you should consider buying a second computer or a car or perhaps some clothing.Production AND consumption of goods is what creates jobs and a decent life for all.When you fill up with gasoline, you are helping me to a better life through taxes which support my pension and medical care. (Did you know that Canada is, by far, America's biggest supplier of oil?) Alex Reid

Although it's sad to lengthen this diatribe upon those with unquestionable ethics, a few statements I still question...what specifically was the potential though? were there any close calls? how did he operate the aircraft?http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/12/barefo...?iref=allsearchFirst paragraph lends pause, I think. Maybe it's just me, but I doubt he read any NOTAMs that day...Fact: The kid did zero physical harm to any human being.http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/30/barefo...?iref=allsearchFrom the middle of the article:Harris-Moore also is suspected of breaking into a home in Yankton, South Dakota, on June 17, police said.The residents returned early one morning to find the intruder inside the house, said Jerry Hisek, the Yankton Police Department's assistant police chief."He'd eaten some of their food, took a shower, cut his hair," Hisek said of the intruder. "He started to run and the guy chased him into the basement of the house."The intruder "laser-dotted the guy and said, 'I have a gun. Get out of here, or I'm going to kill you.'" Hisek said the owner did not know if the individual had a laser pen or a gun."We're classifying him as armed," he said.Just speculation of an alleged incident. Really now, without want to incur the ire of those involved, how does it look for him? Whatever is argued here won't matter at all to decisions of the state and federal legal bodies he'll face. Potential to do harm vs willingness or intention? Which will prevail in prosecution and defense arguments? Ya'll have fun with the rest of this... :(

You know though:What about the somalians who died a few weeks ago.....Somalia is a poor country with little money for education, organization, it's primarily a scumpit for the poorest and the most depraved.Now,What if every american, stopped and donated every cent that he didn't need and it was given to aid projects run by volunteers who build schools employ teachers etc......Now imagine everybody lives like this?Somalia would cease to be a poor nation, it would have schools with teachers who could teach their students and those students would make a difference in the world, they could live somewhat normal lives with all the basic ammenities and items required.Now imagine this happened to the world?Well it hasn't, and it won't.Now imagine this, you stood by and did absolutely nothing, your over-indulgance creates hardship for that person in somalia because his country has poor education, health, and little in the way of a way outThat in itself, you contributed to their murder, they died in a country with no money and high crime rates because in part - you didn't give all you had besides the basic necessities. You contributed to their murder. Horrible person you are, eh?There's far worse in this life than stealing a inanimate object, your judgement of that person as horrible is in bad taste.

No argument about that, which I'm sure you know by now having discussed piracy with me an others in the forums. However, this young lad's theft's most certainly can affect those who are not as well off. I recall reading a sign at a grocery store several years ago discussing how stolen shopping carts were causing food prices to go up, and that would be for everyone, not just the rich folks. I know that when my home was robbed Dec 20th, 2008 it raised my insurance premiums. I have to pay more for my insurance because of thieves. Those robbers did not need to rob my house, nor did this person need to steal airplanes, cars, rob stores, and commit all the crimes he committed. He could have simply turned himself in and been housed and fed. I consider the burglars who invaded my home to be horrible people, and I see no difference with this guy.

You know though:What about the kid in somalians who died a few weeks ago.....Somalia is a poor country with little money for education, organization, it's primarily a scumpit for the poorest and the most depraved.Now,What if every american, stopped and donated ever cent that he didn't need and it was given to aid projects run by volunteers who build schools employe teachers etc......Now imagine everybody lives like this?Somalia would cease to be a poor nation, it would have schools with teachers who could teach their students and those students would make a difference in the world, they could live somewhat normal lives with all the basic ammenities and items required.Now imagine this happened to the world?Well it hasn't, and it won't.Now imagine this, you stood by and did absolutely nothing, your over-indulgance creates hardship for that person in somalia because his country has poor education, health, and little in the way of a way outThat in itself, you contributed to their murder, they died in a country with no money because you didn't give all you had besides the basic necessities. You contributed to their murder. Horrible person you are, eh?There's far worse in this life than stealing a inanimate object, your judgement of that person as horrible is in bad taste.

I disagree. Those Somalians will just become greedy murderers by your logic, because then someone will be more needy than them. Someone will ALWAYS be more needy. I also think using the word "murder" is in much worst taste than me and others referring to a criminal as horrible. I don't believe that my buying a Pepsi when I could have just dunked my head in a stream is murder. Those people dying from lack of life-sustaining items are not being murdered. Someone else can provide a link to the definition of the word.

"...so long as folks can refrain from the vile personal attacks..."I thought I read we can do that if we receive prior clearance? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

Now,What if every american, stopped and donated every cent that he didn't need and it was given to aid projects run by volunteers who build schools employ teachers etc......Now imagine everybody lives like this?Somalia would cease to be a poor nation, it would have schools with teachers who could teach their students and those students would make a difference in the world, they could live somewhat normal lives with all the basic ammenities and items required.Now imagine this happened to the world?

Dude you have been watching too many Miss America pageants :(

This is exactly why I say it will probably never happen, it's natural, but it's WRONG (Isn't it?) none the less.Something awful, but true.I use somalia since it's a good example of what happens when un-educated people receive guns (They kill to get on top, sort of like we use money to get on top in america) (This isn't always the case, but it's been observed more than once in this world)Did you take the gun? nope.Your indulgance in personal items (Like pepsi) removed money from other places in the world market. Western countries are very indulgant compared with the third world. You may work hard for it, but somebody else on the other side of the world works ten times harder for way less. America benefits they get screwed. it's a losing battle for everyone else. westerners (That includes europe, canada, etc. the US is the worse, but russia is guilty too)When push comes to shove? you could never have done enough to help another person short of giving everything, but we observe the worlds poorest kill themselves and their brothers all day.We sip arnold palmers.If you'd have given all you have? you'd have saved a life somewhere some how, in the case of we who have computers and multiple luxuries, our work can save the life of one, and with multiples of us, we can save countries worth of people through the building of schools and promotion of education which leads to business etc. if it would have happened, those people wouldn't be dead. Similar to all third world countries, including those where starvation runs rampant

I disagree. Those Somalians will just become greedy murderers by your logic, because then someone will be more needy than them. Someone will ALWAYS be more needy. I also think using the word "murder" is in much worst taste than me and others referring to a criminal as horrible. I don't believe that my buying a Pepsi when I could have just dunked my head in a stream is murder. Those people dying from lack of life-sustaining items are not being murdered. Someone else can provide a link to the definition of the word.

I just run 2+2 through my head to get 4 and then continue on to get 8 in a logical motion of understanding my world in a way that makes sense to me personally, based on what I know, from what I've observed in my life.I don't watch beauty pageants, they aren't entertaining in the least I find.How about you, do you enjoy watching women flaunt their beauty and ideals?. :(

Dude you have been watching too many Miss America pageants :(