Correct, it could be used for a much better cause (charity) but I participate in this greed just as you do, I' haven't denied that I do....I fail to see where this is going? I've already admitted my guilt in my own writings?Regards,Ryan.

Then why are you here Ryan? The computer you're using could be sold and the proceeds given to charity (or cell phone, laptop, iPad, or whatever you're using). I'm assuming you use some version of Flight Simulator? Why don't you sell it, along with all your peripherals and donate the proceeds to charity? Surely you don't "absolutely need" those things. Why don't you stop your contribution to the "death of those less fortunate" and go live off the land? Obviously I don't know what posessions you have, but I'm assuming that all but those absolutely necessary for life will be sold with the proceeds given to those less fortunate, correct?

Correct, it could be used for a much better cause (charity) but I participate in this greed just as you do, I' haven't denied that I do....I fail to see where this is going? I've already admitted my guilt in my own writings?Regards,Ryan.

Your admission to hypocrisy aside, it's not going anywhere because you are stuck on the mindset that virtually everyone is greedy. If I have $100 and give it to someone who needs it more, than that person now has $100 that someone needs more than him/her. They can give some or all of the money to someone else, and now that person has money that someone else needs more, and so on, and so on. There will ALWAYS be someone who needs it more. I have a dollar bill on my desk right now. From what I've gathered from your posts, by not giving that dollar to someone who needs it more than me, I am contributing to death. What about the person I give it to? Someone surely will need it more than them, so are they contributing to death as well? By your own logic, it would seem that the only person not contributing to death is the most needy person on earth. Whoever is the next to die from lack of whatever he/she needs to sustain their life is the only person not being greedy.

......................I'll just leave it there

What happened?I thought you were going to leave it there. Instead you continue..........

Correct, it could be used for a much better cause (charity) but I participate in this greed just as you do, I' haven't denied that I do....I fail to see where this is going? I've already admitted my guilt in my own writings?Regards,Ryan.

So you're not going to do anything about it, but keep on preaching and admitting your guilt over and over again through many posts - Nice.Utter Hypocrisy..............

Do you deny that you have participated in this greed? as far as I can tell you have, you have a computer as well.If everyone had that mindset, and gave what they didn't need? the entire world would be a better place, those unfortunate would have resources for education, there would be no stravation, and eventually? communism, not like joseph stalin communism, but genuine communism in which everyone is equal and nobody is "At the top"That's fundamentally impossible as far as human nature goes though. I still don't get where we are going with this? or its relevance anymore? I used it as an example of justification in support of ultimately being against the exampled label of "amoral sociopath" on mr. Moore.

Your admission to hypocrisy aside, it's not going anywhere because you are stuck on the mindset that virtually everyone is greedy. If I have $100 and give it to someone who needs it more, than that person now has $100 that someone needs more than him/her. They can give some or all of the money to someone else, and now that person has money that someone else needs more, and so on, and so on. There will ALWAYS be someone who needs it more. I have a dollar bill on my desk right now. From what I've gathered from your posts, by not giving that dollar to someone who needs it more than me, I am contributing to death. What about the person I give it to? Someone surely will need it more than them, so are they contributing to death as well? By your own logic, it would seem that the only person not contributing to death is the most needy person on earth. Whoever is the next to die from lack of whatever he/she needs to sustain their life is the only person not being greedy.

Read johns post, his first sentance is very much agreeable, or are we incapable of structured discussion and coming to terms with one another? (Whether or not we agree)

What happened?I thought you were going to leave it there. Instead you continue..........So you're not going to do anything about it, but keep on preaching and admitting your guilt over and over again through many posts - Nice.Utter Hypocrisy..............

This is an FS and Aviation forum. Its not the place to discuss politics, you're free do do that elsewhere.

"You seem to be baffled by the idea that by keeping anything more than you absolutely need, you contribute to the death of those less fortunate." Who determines what a person "NEEDS"??? I,for one, worked hard to have more than my "needs"...And if you think someone died because I did not give away the fruits of my labor,then so be it!!! You are a sick puppy!!

Do you deny that you have participated in this greed? as far as I can tell you have, you have a computer as well.If everyone had that mindset, and gave what they didn't need? the entire world would be a better place, those unfortunate would have resources for education, there would be no stravation, and eventually? communism, not like joseph stalin communism, but genuine communism in which everyone is equal and nobody is "At the top"That's fundamentally impossible as far as human nature goes though. I still don't get where we are going with this? or its relevance?

Yes, I deny participating in this so-called greed because I don't think it's greedy at all. I fail to see how working hard and saving my money is greedy. My money is spent keeping other people employed with my purchases. It's saved for retirement. It's used in charitable ways as well. Those people "at the top", whom I am most certainly not one of, are also the people who invest in businesses that provide jobs, and contribute enormously to charity. Bill and Melinda Gates contribute tremendously through their charitable organization, which was funded by so-called greed from people who made Microsoft profitable with their purchases. Sounds like that greedy purchase of Windows, Office, FS, etc was a good thing.

Do you deny that you have participated in this greed? as far as I can tell you have, you have a computer as well.If everyone had that mindset, and gave what they didn't need? the entire world would be a better place, those unfortunate would have resources for education, there would be no stravation, and eventually? communism, not like joseph stalin communism, but genuine communism in which everyone is equal and nobody is "At the top"That's fundamentally impossible as far as human nature goes though. I still don't get where we are going with this? or its relevance?Read johns post, his first sentance is very much agreeable, and you've yet to explain yourself, which is at which time I would leave. or are we incapable of structured discussion and coming to terms with one another? (Whether or not we agree)

You are wrong on the aspect that the world would be a better place. Africa would still be the hell hole it is and those who really need the food would still be starving. Greed keeps the warlords taking the food that keeps rolling in. I will not fill that greed. As far as the rest, here in the States, we have lazy people who will not do anything to help themselves so I will not help them. Am I greedy? Maybe, but I worked hard over the last 24 years to be able to buy what I own, especially starting out with nothing and living in the back seat of a car at a place of employment and in SoCal of all places where it is expensive to live. Am I greedy? Maybe, but I worked hard to be able to own a PC and some nice stuff and though I may not need them, I enjoy them.

I didn't start us on politics, my original post was about mr Moore, and the unacceptable label used by mr. Bill. From there my ideology explaining why bill shouldn't do this got turned down and boiled into politics because nobody understood it/understands it. as is typical with ideas that aren't inline with the norm. :( I agree though for what it's worth. =/

This is an FS and Aviation forum. Its not the place to discuss politics, you're free do do that elsewhere.

Yes they've contributed to jobs,No their contributions aren't enough to make them less greedy than most the rest of america, or anything anyone could probably consider as honorable given proper insight. as a moderator aren't you supposed to stop threads from going off topic? or are we just going to make this My ideology vs. Yours?? (which was never the intention of my original post, as was interpereted by John, from where which point it rapidly degressed, of which we're both at fault It should of been defused but we misunderstood eachother and that's where the fuse lit and progressed.).I've also been defending myself after people have questioned my thoughts of his acts as entertaining, but not so serious at best. :( . A lot of people apparently think Name-calling is Alright and good practice too. :(By keeping anything more than you need, you are being problematic for someone in the world who has difficulty in finding a trade, or work, or an education, or some way to contribute. It's greed.

Yes, I deny participating in this so-called greed because I don't think it's greedy at all. I fail to see how working hard and saving my money is greedy. My money is spent keeping other people employed with my purchases. It's saved for retirement. It's used in charitable ways as well. Those people "at the top", whom I am most certainly not one of, are also the people who invest in businesses that provide jobs, and contribute enormously to charity. Bill and Melinda Gates contribute tremendously through their charitable organization, which was funded by so-called greed from people who made Microsoft profitable with their purchases. Sounds like that greedy purchase of Windows, Office, FS, etc was a good thing.

Yes they've contributed to jobs,No their contributions aren't enough to make them less greedy than most the rest of america, or anything probably considered as honorable, as a moderator aren't you supposed to stop threads from going off topic? or are we just going to make this My ideology vs. Yours??Bill shouldn't have called Mr. Moore an amoral sociopath, that's all I'm saying and exactly what my ideology supports.By keeping anything more than you need, you are being problematic for someone in the world who has difficulty in finding a trade, or work, or an education, or some way to contribute. It's greed.

First, I'll moderate as I see most productive to the continued civility and welcoming environment we strive to provide at AVSIM. I see nothing wrong with the direction this topic has taken so long as folks can refrain from the vile personal attacks that typically get threads locked. If Tom comes along and decides this topic needs locked, he can do so, and Geof and David are more than welcome to do so if they wish as well. Until then, I see nothing wrong with a good debate. Nobody is forced to participate in this thread. And once again, I have to ask why you fail to practice what you preach. You are keeping more than what you need, so why not get rid of it all? Why won't you rid yourself of your non-required posessions? EDIT* Here's a good start http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showforum=174. That's the Swap Meet forum, where you can start selling off your FS related items.

I didn't start us on politics, my original post was about mr Moore, and the unacceptable label used by mr. Bill. From there my ideology explaining why bill shouldn't do this got turned down and boiled into politics because nobody understood it/understands it. as is typical with ideas that aren't inline with the norm. :( I agree though for what it's worth. =/

The main individual who turned this into politics is you.The world can certanly benefit from a more social and responsible attitude. We are alredy seeing some improvements compared to the past. All we can do is keep improving. Who knows what will happen in the future - I hope something good.What you have done is to accuse everybody of being just as bad as some criminal kid who stole and crashed airplanes. Well that's just BS. You can't compare honest hard working people to a criminal or accuse them of causing deaths.

................Before anybody calls this kid's crimes serious, or that he's a "Bad person" this or that, look at yourself. I defend Mr. harris moore's name, in that his crimes on the world aren't particularly worse than our own, he's committed crimes none the less though for which there are consequences and he's going to jail. Doesn't mean he's better or worse than anybody else though..........Fact of the matter is, this kid's done nothing more, or worse, than what we do daily in our own ignorance as model citizens going about our business. It's model citizens like us that contribute to the deaths of Millions...............

Then you start talking about politics and greed, and frankly that is not a discussion for these forums.

Fact: The kid did zero physical harm to any human being.Fact: The kid broke laws... but in doing so harmed only material posessions.Reality check: If you think stealing/harming material possessions makes one 'horrible' (it is essentially what he did)... then you are indeed driven by the greed of material wealth.Cars, planes, food, etc... all can be replaced. A human life can not. I stand by my original statement that many of you are attaching labels to this kid that do not apply.Oh... and life is fair... man is not. Man is not life, but simply living it.

I didn't start us on politics, my original post was about mr Moore, and the unacceptable label used by mr. Bill.

It seems perfectly acceptable to most of us to label a persisent thief as an amoral sociopath because that's what his own behaviour has shown him to be.amoral = lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of somethingsociopath = a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behaviourSource: Oxford DictionariesI think they describe him fairly well.

I agree, mostly.

Fact: The kid did zero physical harm to any human being.Fact: The kid broke laws... but in doing so harmed only material posessions.Reality check: If you think stealing/harming material possessions makes one 'horrible' (it is essentially what he did)... then you are indeed driven by the greed of material wealth.Cars, planes, food, etc... all can be replaced. A human life can not. I stand by my original statement that many of you are attaching labels to this kid that do not apply.Oh... and life is fair... man is not. Man is not life, but simply living it.