While I have found German military airports for free, German civilian airports appear to be pay for. I have searched for German Airport diagrams and charts, yet they are either from FS communities such as VATSIM, but no government created charts.

You got it exactly... I believe there are IFR AIP charts on the Eurocontrol page but who'd ever fly with them... no one does. Furthermore, tell me where to get the (HQ) WX data I have to PAY for in Germany some place else for FREE. There is no such place, believe me. And I doubt you could use data obtained from other (=free) places for legal flight planning, but I yet stand to be corrected.

Good post... I think you'll want to file Jet routes if flying above FL180. So instead of V2 or whatever you'd use another VOR that is high altitude. Like DLH J538 DLL. I don't think a lot of 737's fly on victor airways.SkyVector is good for finding high altitude airways...http://skyvector.com/

OK, I have a question about the ERLIN 7 Arrival (RNAV) into KATL. What do they mean by Landing West Rwy 26L/R then send you around to the East side of the airport? Does Landing West not mean landing from the west?

BOWLING GREEN TRANSITION (BWG.ERLIN7):MEMPHIS TRANSITION (MEM.ERLIN7):NASHVILLE TRANSITION (BNA.ERLIN7):From RMG VORTAC via 135^ track to ERLIN, then via 135^ track to DALAS, thenvia 135^ track to STUTZ. Thence via assigned runway transition.Landing West Rwy 26L/R: From over STUTZ via 135^ track to NOFIV, then 092^ trackto FANEW, then via 092^ track to HAVAD, then via 091^ track to IGEBE, then via 091^heading. Expect radar vectors.Landing West Rwy 28, 27L/R: Landing West Rwy 28, 27L/R: From over STUTZ via 156^ track to FOGOG, thenthen via 092^ track to BOJAA, then via 092^ track to HEDEG, then via 092^ trackto SOFOR, then via 092^ heading. Expect radar vectors.Landing East Rwy 8L/R,9L/R,10: From over STUTZ via 135^ track to NOFIV, then092^ track to FANEW, then via 092^ track to HAVAD, then via 091^ track to IGEBE,then via 091^ heading. Expect radar vectors to final approach course after STUTZ.

Thanks for y'alls help.

OK, I have a question about the ERLIN 7 Arrival (RNAV) into KATL. What do they mean by Landing West Rwy 26L/R then send you around to the East side of the airport? Does Landing West not mean landing from the west?Thanks for y'alls help.

Landing West means you are landing facing west, so it makes sense you are going to get vectored to the east side of the aiport, so you will turn to the west to land.

Thank you. 

Good post... I think you'll want to file Jet routes if flying above FL180. So instead of V2 or whatever you'd use another VOR that is high altitude. Like DLH J538 DLL. I don't think a lot of 737's fly on victor airways.SkyVector is good for finding high altitude airways...http://skyvector.com/

Hi Ryan.,I'm not sure if this was a responce to anything I wrote, but in case it is, I have been writing routes for VRoute, and all (well 98%) are IFR LOW so under FL180. Some of the routes I have done in this project though I have also included the higher Jetway routes as well. As for SkyVector.com, as I've mentioned a few posts back I think the other site is easier and has a slightly better feel, but thats just me. Both sites have the same foundation and charts and allow both Low IFR, High IFR and VFR charts. It really comes down to how each has their other info made available.Hi Mike (Whitenight77) Nice pic of Tustina you have there. Looks like a sand storm almost.

Well Dan, that is Souther California back in 84. I can't remember but sometime around July or August, I don't remember right off. That is the smog that SoCal is famous for. I was stationed at Tustin MCAS(H) back then. That stuff is nasty to fly in and while I miss the flying (as aircrew), I do not miss the smog.

I just saw the properties for the pic and it said Tustina so I thought I'd pretend I knew :wink:It's funny but after a poker game at my place and since we are all smokers I imagine that's pretty close to what it looks like. ATC probably has to clear people through the IFR smoke of Dan Space :)

I use some pretty weird naming conventions when it comes to pics.I won't comment on the smoky atmosphere. I can honestly relate to them in my earlier years.  :unsure:Anyway, thanks for creating this thread, I didn't mean to hijack it and am trying to wrap my head around some of what others have said.

No Problem and it's not hijacking, it's meant for basic questions with no real particular question needs to remain the focus. Ask away, hopefully we can all learn from one anothers questions.Speaking of which...Hello gents, I just remembered a question I have always wondered. When Tower gives clearance for you to land, they always say the QNH (baro/mil) is this meant to be the airports QNH? Or where I am on approach? I think in FSX it's for where you are at the time it's given, but have always wondered if it was meant to be for the actual airport to have tuned in for DH, MDA or TDZE. How do they do it in the real world?

Haha, there we go again. :(

Speaking of which...Hello gents, I just remembered a question I have always wondered. When Tower gives clearance for you to land, they always say the QNH (baro/mil) is this meant to be the airports QNH? Or where I am on approach? I think in FSX it's for where you are at the time it's given, but have always wondered if it was meant to be for the actual airport to have tuned in for DH, MDA or TDZE. How do they do it in the real world?

Absolutely. When an FS ATCO tells you any QNH (be it enroute or anywhere else) I am pretty sure it is the one applying to your actual location. I believe ATIS will be field QNH though, so you might want to set that one on approach (will have to check it out, thanks for bringing it up!).In the real world, obviously, they can't quite know your "local" QNH and it would make little sense too. Whenever you get QNH by ATIS or the TWR it's always the field QNH. Thus when you land or take off, your altimeter should always show field elevation. Would make no sense otherwise.Same goes for enroute. When I'm flying below TA/TL I usually get the QNH of the nearest major/Intl airport from the radar controller (I believe it's also the only data they have).As for a reason besides the technical impossibility:Remember, all aircraft flying in a certain area want to fly at about the same QNH (certainly NOT their respective "local" one). The local one would in fact give them a sort of "correct" altitude reading for themselves (even really not that since other effects take place too... not elaborating here).But OTOH and more importantly than a (pseudo-)correct altitude indication for individual aircraft, the relative altitude between planes flying at different QNH settings will be off. So someone flying "5000 feet" at 1000hPa setting is certainly some 300 actual feet lower than someone flying "5000 feet" at 1010hPa. See, separation will be difficult for ATC then... This is only a made-up example but I hope it shows where the whole thing is going. :(

Thanks for detailed reply!Now I know when the PMDG screens dispaly the word Retard they are talking about me. I completely discounted ATIS to get field QNH, doh (Even though I normally always check it). The question came from getting a QNH from Tower that didn't match either my location or the Airport. It will normally match my location so wrote it off to be my wx not updating the AI. The actual QNH info is the one I get from Tower upon requesting landing. Their reply being something like "United 342, cleared to land RW15R, Altimeter 3007".I also wasn't sure if ATC's had this data on their radar for your current local. It seemed possible, especially because the fact that they want pilots to always know their correct altitude. The way I always envisioned it was the ATC gave you the QNH for their coverage area, thus the area I was flying at the time, or starting to fly through. That interpretation came from the fact that at least in FSX they only seem to tell you the QNH when you've first made contact with them.Could you tell me what TA/TL stands for and OTOH? Perhaps my coffee hasn't kicked in yet but I don't think I'm familiar with these abreviations.New question I thought would be a good place for this topic is do you (or anyone) know the altitude differences for traveling routes? What I mean is I remember vaguely something about when traveling West to East normally you would be asigned an odd number for elevation or even and normally something like a 1500' difference between the two. Hope that makes sence.Thanks again for the reply and info!

Hey there,

The question came from getting a QNH from Tower that didn't match either my location or the Airport.

I gotta admit I haven't checked what I promised above so far. Can't quite understand what QNH you got there or where it came from LOL. :(

I also wasn't sure if ATC's had this data on their radar for your current local.

Ok I am no ATCO nor have I ever been to an ARTCC or equivalent, but the ATCO work stations that I know usually have a seperate info display above the main radar screen with METARs and ATIS of nearby airports. So I believe they indeed give you some sort of "area" QNH but I suppose the data still comes from the airports (prolly interpolate between em).

It seemed possible, especially because the fact that they want pilots to always know their correct altitude.

As far as ATC and thus seperation goes, I believe that for the ATCO relative altitudes between aircraft are of much greater importance than an individual, eventually "correct" reading on single aircraft.Where I come from it usually works like this: You get departure QNH from the ATIS or TWR in case there is no ATIS avail. You depart using that value. Well, but your transponder is always referenced to standard QNH 1013.25 hPa though, and you also cannot change that. In other words, it always transmits "flight level", never altitude.The ATCO, in turn, has local QNH fed into his radar system. So although he receives "flight level" from your transponder, his system will apply local QNH to that value. That way he will again read your altitude on screen. This concept may also serve as a rough QNH check for you. When airborne an initial call to ARTCC could sound like "Flight 123, passing 800, climbing 4000" or similar. Now the ATCO can check if your altitude really reads 800 (because it should for said reasons). Now I certainly don't want to stick my neck out but at least that's what I have been taught so don't hold me to it. :rolleyes:Anyways, as you progress climbing you might have cleared all terrain at some point and are above TA (see below...). Now all planes fly using the same altimeter setting, and assuming the real, actual pressure is not standard (which is the case, like, close to 24/7/365), actually no single aircraft up there knows its "true" altitude.

Could you tell me what TA/TL stands for and OTOH? Perhaps my coffee hasn't kicked in yet but I don't think I'm familiar with these abreviations.

TA/TL is transition altitude/level, resp., and if you need more info on that system make sure to let me know. For example if you have problems understanding the preceding paragraph. Sorry for the OTOH, I was just a bit lazy. OTOH though, I am not anymore now: I should read 'on the other hand'! :(

New question I thought would be a good place for this topic is do you (or anyone) know the altitude differences for traveling routes? What I mean is I remember vaguely something about when traveling West to East normally you would be asigned an odd number for elevation or even and normally something like a 1500' difference between the two. Hope that makes sence.

This has been done for seperation purposes. Nevertheless I just recently learned it might differ by country. But for the most part though you have odd levels (say 3000, 5000, ... FL210, FL230 ...) from a magnetic course from 000°-179° and even levels (4000, 6000, ... FL180, FL200, ...) from 180°-359°. Hence the difference is 2000 feet for levels pointing in (roughly) the same direction and otherwise 1000 feet for all levels. For RVSM that was not always true but I guess that's not quite the point here.Now what I just recently heard makes quite sense... Look at a country like Chile. It's shape has a very clear north-south extension while the east-west distance is really a lot less. So in countries like Chile I believe they seperate between northbound and southbound flights. Say the northbounds (like 270°-089°) go odd, the southbounds (090°-269°) go even levels or maybe the other way round, but just to introduce the difference of concept. Seperating east- and westbound flights would not make a lot of sense in such a country.

Verticle seperation minima is 1,000 ft from SL to FL290, 2,000 ft from FL290 to FL410, and 4,000ft from FL410 to outerspace.RVSM, which requires special equipment on the aircraft (good enough autopilot and altimeters), exists as airspace, which extends from FL290 to FL410, allows 1,000ft Verticle Seperation between those Flight Levels.If you dont have RVSM equipment, you must fly below or above RVSM airspace, or request special clearence/permission from ATC.

Thanks for detailed reply!Now I know when the PMDG screens dispaly the word Retard they are talking about me. I completely discounted ATIS to get field QNH, doh

Technically, you are supposed to set to the field altimeter for approach. For me, personally, since my home base is so close to KIAD, I get a "Dulles Altimeter" read to me while talking to Potomac Tracon and its always the same as the home base. If you are flying to the actual large airport (i.e., the ones a 747 or MD-11 would typically serve), it is likely to have approach control and have it given to you well before you get to the tower. You are still supposed to listen to ATIS to get winds and the like, but honestly, ATIS can be an hour old, and can be no longer useful if the facility in charge of updating doesn't update it. I think automated ones update automatically based on observations. Personally , if I'm landing and its windy, I might ask tower for a "wind check" to give more current information on final. Pretty rare to need that kind of updating in a heavy, but it happens.