Caravan: Two Big Thumbs Up!

[spotlope 0]

I've had a chance to take the Caravan up for a proper flight this evening, so I thought I'd post my first impressions. In a nutshell: this is a winner! The exterior is crisp and very well-modeled. Same for the VC, which is tack-sharp and beautifully done. The hi-def 2048-square texture sheets really lend amazing resolution to the panel especially. Performance on my middling rig is very good - easily on par with their other recent offerings. The sound set is excellent, especially the start up sequence. I'd like a little more oomph on the bass end personally, but maybe that's how these things sound from inside. All I know of Caravans is the sound that dozens of them make every evening as they wing over my house on their way to PDX, and what I hear out there is a little more of a low rumble than the Carenado sounds indicate. Not a deal breaker by a long shot.Carenado fans are probably holding their breath, waiting for the part about the flight dynamics. I have to say, not being a real-world 208 pilot but being well-versed in various sim turboprops, this one flies very, very well. I'd even go so far as to say it's Carenado's best initial showing for an FDE, maybe ever. Those glaring problems that the 185 and Bonanza had on release? I can't find them here. The Caravan is stable, fairly docile, and very predictable in flight. This is a big deal, as a lot of people love to rant about these guys' bad air files. This time around, they got it right. Maybe there are some tweaks and fine-tuning that could be done, I don't know. What I do know is that there don't seem to be any show-stoppers at first glance.Also, they added some goodies that prove they've been listening to the forum feedback. If you want to use third-party avionics, you can switch off the 3D knobs in the VC with a click of the mouse on the control panel. Likewise, if you don't care for tinted glass, you can make it clear with a mouse click. The seats come in two different configurations, and removing that unsightly belly pod is an option as well. The only thing that makes me a little sad at the moment is the lack of a CargoMaster variant, as I'd really hoped to do some FedEx simming. Perhaps they'll consider adding it in an upcoming expansion. :( All in all, I'm tickled with this purchase. It's the best $35 I spent all day. :(

[raymar 969]

I've had a chance to take the Caravan up for a proper flight this evening, so I thought I'd post my first impressions. In a nutshell: this is a winner! The exterior is crisp and very well-modeled. Same for the VC, which is tack-sharp and beautifully done. The hi-def 2048-square texture sheets really lend amazing resolution to the panel especially. . . . . . .The only thing that makes me a little sad at the moment is the lack of a CargoMaster variant, as I'd really hoped to do some FedEx simming. Perhaps they'll consider adding it in an upcoming expansion. :( All in all, I'm tickled with this purchase. It's the best $35 I spent all day. :(

Thanks Bill for posting the early first impression.RayM

[Arklight1 140]

The only thing I can really see is the pilot looks a little small.

[spotlope 0]

The only thing I can really see is the pilot looks a little small.

I dunno, the Caravan is a pretty big plane for a single prop.

[Arklight1 140]

I dunno, the Caravan is a pretty big plane for a single prop.

Yeah, it is tough to tell. I looked up the dimensions of the Cessna Caravan and it is a lot bigger than I thought:Height 15 ft 6 in (4.72 m) Length 41 ft 7 in (12.68 m) Wingspan 52 ft 1 in (15.88 m) Hmm, maybe the pilot is not too small. Check this pic out:http://aviation-safety.net/photos/displayphoto.php?id=20040816-0&vnr=1&kind=PCThat is a big airplane. Almost 42 ft long?!?! Omg..

[fritzreinhart 0]

I'm glad that all the first impressions of the Caravan are so good, especially the FDE's. But frankly, I'm disappointed that there is no cargo version. I think I'll wait and see if there will be another package for it, like the 185 Bush models. But it's hard to resist...Cheers,Fritz

[ricky76 46]

Another happy customer here!!! I just put 4 1/2 hours on her last night flying around Vancouver Island. I love the ability to add/remove window tint in game, great feature!! Having never flown a real 208, I can't comment on the flight dynamics but it handles the way I would expect it to. Andother fine job by the Carenado crew!!!

[Guest BeaverDriver]

Just a couple of comments as we have Caravans in our hangar frequently where I work. I've not flown one IRL, but the fellows that do tell me they are just like flying an overgrown 172. Very easy, very docile. I'd say the FDE's are dead on with this one. As Bill mentioned, the sounds are outstanding, and this is the first turbine in FS of any version I've heard that doesn't sound like a piston machine starting up (where there is a surge of power right after starting before it settles down into idle). Huge kudos to Carenado for overcoming that little hurdle. The other thing you will notice is a very definite lag from when you push the throttle forward to when you feel it take effect. That is very, very typical of a real turboprop machine. Again, kudos (and remember, that means you need to plan a bit more in advance things like go-arounds and approach angles, etc.! - don't blame Carenado if you botch a go-around because the power came up "too late" :()As to its size, yeah, they are a BIG airplane! Sitting in the pilot's seat (which I have done a number of times) you still have lots of headroom, although it's easy to see over the top of the panel with the seat cranked up a bit. Think single Otter and you're pretty close to that, and not a lot smaller than a twin Otter. Standing beside the pilot's door on the ground, the floor of the airplane is about even with my eyes, and I'm 5'10". That ladder to the cockpit isn't there for looks :(.I do agree with others and have a hard time believing that after all the posts here on the versions desired, there is no cargo version available. I would fly the cargo version FAR more than the passenger version as I mostly fly in the bush. That's about the only "down-side" I can see to this airplane though. However, I do think that will hurt their sales of this airplane, so hopefully they offer a variant of this machine.All in all, I'd say this is one of, if not THE best overall release of any of their airplanes, and if you do want to fly passengers, and you like the Caravan even a little bit, this one is a no-brainer. Get it. If you only fly cargo, you might want to wait for a bit and see if they will release that variant.Hope this helps.

[Yoda967 23]

I was taken aback by the price...Thirty-five bucks??? Then I saw the thing. Carenado has always had great models and their recent panels have been beyond good. This is their best work, by far.Startup was pretty straight forward, based on my experience with other PT6-powered MSFS aircraft. Ignition on, starter on, spool up above 10%, condition lever to low idle. Nicely done.A look around the cockpit at the instruments shows the care they put into this panel. One beef I have (and this is also true of the F33) is that the altitude alerter doesn't work as it should. The two left-hand buttons don't work at all, so I can't arm ALT SEL as I should. The click spot you use to switch between VS and ALT settings is not on the knob, as it should be (and as it says in the manual supplement provided by Carenado), but below and to the left of the knob. Leaving the condition lever in low idle, taxi out was easy. The turbine spool lag feels about right. I used alternating forward and reverse thrust to taxi, saving the brake pads a bit. (I read a post somewhere by a corporate B200 pilot who said that his boss was always on his case about brake pad wear, since apparently it's cheaper to grind the rock chips out of a prop than it is to replace brake pads.)Setting up for takeoff, I set flaps to 20, pushed the condition lever to high idle, and didn't see the bump in torque that I expected. What the low and high idle settings are doing is setting your idle fuel flow, and the way the PT6 works, you should see torque rise a little when you push the condition lever forward.Setting takeoff power was still more disappointing. Flying with a PT6 is all about managing the engine at the limits of prop speed, torque, and ITT. Prop RPM rose to a couple notches above the red line...where's the prop governor? According to Cessna's website, the 208B's engine is protected by an overspeed governor, so with the prop lever full forward, I would expect the prop RPM to rise to the red line and stay there. (In the B1900, that's the first step in setting takeoff power. Stand up the power levers, props on the governors, check that everything is in the green, then set takeoff torque.) So, sitting on the runway, I've already busted one limit, but I pulled the prop lever back to settle the RPM at the red line and checked torque and ITT. ITT was up around 790^oC, which is much too high...again, a busted limit. On a hot day in the King Air, you sometimes set takeoff power based on ITT of 740^oC (sometimes lower, depending on company policy), and accept the reduced torque. When I pulled the power back to the top of the green arc on the ITT gauge, the torque seemed very low. So, my initial thinking is that this PT6 runs very hot, and as I wrote last night, more study is required. (Part of the problem is the difficulty of finding a Caravan POH, or at least engine management advice online.)Liftoff occurs right at the book speed but flying the plane with the ITT on the limits made the climb rate seem very slow, and the airspeed in level flight at 4000 feet never went above about 105 KIAS. Considering that the cruise climb speeds are 110-120 KIAS and the turbulent air penetration speed at max gross is 148 KIAS, I was surprised. Yes, I was using real weather, but it wasn't such a hot day in San Diego yesterday that I'd expect to see the ITT so high. A coupled ILS approach revealed the AP to be spot on...absolutely one of the best I've ever seen in MSFS. Since my level speed was just 105 KIAS, I was able to manage the speed with the flaps, and never touched the power lever until short final. At full flaps, on the glide path, I was at about 85 KIAS, and simply pulled the power off at the flare and the plane settled nicely on the runway. Once I set the nose down, I went to full reverse and the plane rolled smoothly to a stop...probably the nicest first-flight landing I've ever made. I think this is the best product Carenado has ever offered...the panel is first rate, the model is perfect, the feel of the airplane in flight is excellent. My only serious compaint, which admittedly should be taken with a grain of salt since I can't find any documentation at all to back me up, is that the engine doesn't seem quite right. (In my defense, I've done a LOT of study of the PT6 engine, what with my involvement in the Aeroworx B200.) I really wish Carenado had seen fit to provide us with some engine management guidance in addition to the checklists.On the whole, though...this was $35 well spent and I'll be flying the plane a lot. Now, if we can get them to do a Baron B58 to this level of quality!

[spotlope 0]

Liftoff occurs right at the book speed but flying the plane with the ITT on the limits made the climb rate seem very slow, and the airspeed in level flight at 4000 feet never went above about 105 KIAS. Considering that the cruise climb speeds are 110-120 KIAS and the turbulent air penetration speed at max gross is 148 KIAS, I was surprised.

It's interesting that you would mention the low level-flight cruise speed, Kurt. I did a couple of quick flights with the Caravan right after I downloaded it, and in both I was never able to get the speeds up to where they were supposed to be either. In fact, I was barely able to get it to 80 KIAS at first. That was with my default scenery testing flight loaded. When I went back to it last night and loaded my default "flight" situation, I was able to get the speeds right up into the 130-140 range. Perhaps there's something going on with the flight dynamics that somehow limits the speed on occasion. I'll be interested to hear if you continue to have speed problems, or if it resolves itself.

[KalahariRover 0]

This is the plane I've been waiting for, for a very long time. Really happy with the way it turned out. I fly the Aerosoft Twin Otter a lot, and I like that plane, but always have regrets over the level of detail and quality of the modeling. This one is just superb. I find all kinds of small details every time I look at it. Looking forward to diving into the GPS system as well.One thing though, and it isn't a complaint, I probably am just doing something wrong. I'm not a pilot, but I did find a PDF with the 208B Grand Caravan cruise tables in it and I'm struggling to get similar performance. One example from the cruise table says:OAT 20 deg C4000 feet pressure altitude8,750 pounds weightCargo pod installed1600 Torque1750 RPMI chose "fair weather" and used shift-Z to verify I have no wind.According to the table I should be getting 158 KTAS. I'm not seeing anywhere near that. 158 KTAS is about 146 KIAS at 4,000 MSL if I'm working my flight computer correctly. I'm seeing numbers more in the 125 KIAS range.I also checked to make sure the inertial separator was off (normal). Anyway, she seems slow to me. I was under the impression that the Caravan cruises quite comfortably at 140 KIAS, and I can't get near that.

[ryanbatc 12,839]

Liftoff occurs right at the book speed but flying the plane with the ITT on the limits made the climb rate seem very slow, and the airspeed in level flight at 4000 feet never went above about 105 KIAS. Considering that the cruise climb speeds are 110-120 KIAS and the turbulent air penetration speed at max gross is 148 KIAS, I was surprised. Yes, I was using real weather, but it wasn't such a hot day in San Diego yesterday that I'd expect to see the ITT so high.

How can the FDE be perfect if this is happening to numerous users???I remember the 208B to cruise at 150-160kias, yellow arc, if you're pushing it. You guys are saying it won't go past 120kias at low level cruise?

[spotlope 0]

How can the FDE be perfect if this is happening to numerous users???I remember the 208B to cruise at 150-160kias, yellow arc, if you're pushing it. You guys are saying it won't go past 120kias at low level cruise?

Who said anything about the FDE being perfect? The only use of that word in this thread was describing the model, which is hard to find fault with. According to the Carenado C208 manual, the max structural cruising speed is 140KIAS. The Cessna site lists Vno as 184KTAS. I had it up to around 135 in level flight last night, which is about the best I've gotten so far. So yeah, it could stand some tweaking.

[Guest BeaverDriver]

I too noticed my airspeeds a bit low, but only did 1 circuit so I didn't pay much attention. Now, they were well above 105. I wonder if you need to load a default airplane first to initialize the sim (I did do that)? That might have an effect. Next question is the airspeed indicator out of cal, or is the airplane really that slow? Needs to be checked. All that said, I've seen some payware aircraft cruise in, or very near the yellow, and I can't honestly say in 17 years of RW flying I ever saw any machine do that under normal power (65 to 75% power). I find that a bit exaggerated, although less so if the airplane is brand new from the factory. So I don't think the Caravan should cruise up that high, but it sure shouldn't be around 105 :). I'll ask one of the guys when the next C208 comes back to our hangar what they typically see in flight and we'll have a better idea. That likely won't be for a bit as they are all pretty busy this time of year. I'll keep you posted.

[Ozark_Dogfighter 0]

I am disappointed by the lack of a dedicated cargo version. I would love an actual SuperCargomaster in FSX. Dunno about the FedEx ones much, but I worked for Evergreen at Tulsa International as a ramp service agent in '97 - '98. Evergreen handled UPS cargo there. Martinaire handled most of the feeder work, all with SuperCargoMaster Caravans. I loved them!! True workhorses.On a side note, I really miss that job, even though the temps were EXTREME on that ramp, and the packages can be quite heavy. One of the feeder planes (not Martinaire) was a Cessna 310 (loved sticking small packages into the engine pod compartments) and one was an old Beech D18/ Expediter that saw WWII service. The pilot actually showed me a couple bullet holes in the flooring (the skin was repaired but they left the holes in the floor). That was cool. Also sliding containers from a K-Loader to the 757.Anyway, please please make a SuperCargoMaster variant, Carenado!!!