Yes, it does change the style of flying considerably. If you look up American Eagle Flight 4184, which was an ATR-72 that crashed in 1994, in Indiana, you'll note that it was lost owing to flying into unknown icing conditions.A build up of ice, which the de-icing boots could not clear after it flew into freezing rain, caused a severe uncommanded aileron movement which disengaged the autopilot and the aircraft then went through a full 360 degree roll, it then stalled and went into a dive, which was recovered from by the crew, but the aircraft then did the same thing again, and being low down from the first dive, it was too low to again be recovered and crashed into the ground at a speed of nearly 400 mph, killing everyone on board.The accident had a big effect on how the ATR-72 (and some other regional turboprops) is deployed by airlines in the United States; as a result of the crash, most ATRs are not flown in areas where severe icing is thought likely and some airlines went even further than that, notably American Eagle, which moved all its ATRs to the Caribbean. Moreover, the accident itself served to point out how much more at risk regional and GA aircraft which cruise at 20,000 feet or so are in comparison to their higher flying jet brethren, and that's from both wing and tailplane icing, because they spend a lot of time in clouds where freezing rain can be found.In particular, the possibility of tailplane icing does very much change the style of airline flying; it is recommended that pilots of - especially regional turboprops - periodically disengage the autopilot and operate the elevators to ensure that the tailplane has not iced up and had excessive trim applied by the autopilot to counter the problem of an iced up tail surface. If they don't do that check when up high, and instead find that the tail is iced when the tailplane stalls as the flaps alter the angle of attack on the airflow over it, which is likely to occur on finals, then the aircraft will probably nosedive as the tailplane gets forced down into the vacuum under the stalled tailplane, and all that would occur at too low an altitude to make a recovery possible. So it is quite literally a matter of life and death to check for tailplane icing being masked by the use of the autopilot, and pretty standard procedure for regional propliner crews to watch out for it, since they spend a lot of time in the clouds.Al

Oh.. So sad.. :( But Is it mentioned in FS?

Why do you want icing? Does it change style of flying? Except turing on Anti Ice :D

Airframe Icing is a very important consideration when flying in the real world.There are atmospheric conditions that can lead to the formation of water ice on the surfaces of an aircraft, or within the engine like for example carburettor icing (on piston engined aircraft) or Inlet icing which can occur in jet aircraft, etc..... If left un-checked it can cause the plane to become un-flyable, at which point it will fall like a rock - As ice builds on the airframe (especially on the wings, where it is most dangerous) it can ruin the flying properties of the aircraft by disrupting the airflow and adding weight. Unmonitored it can be very dangerous for all aircraft, especially smaller GA types (many of which are not certified for flight into icing conditions). A pilot has to be aware of any possible icing conditions and take appropriate action.Effect of icing can include:increased drag,decreased lift, increased stall speed, interference with movement of control surfaces, propeller imbalance,pitot-static blockage, jammed landing gear,etc..............In short it changes the style of flying immensely, and if properly simulated it would add a realistic depth to the simulator that we would very much enjoy, and we would be able to practice realistically flying in these conditions.

I know icing is very important in real world but It is not important is FS.

I know icing is very important in real world but It is not important is FS.

Yes it is, if you want a realistic simulator.

Yes it is, if you want a realistic simulator.

I think I am not well educated in anti ice so that's why I say that. I just know you turn on antiice and there is no more ice :) lol

I think I am not well educated in anti ice so that's why I say that. I just know you turn on antiice and there is no more ice :) lol

Since it appears you are a bit of an Airbus fan from that signature, you might be interested to know that when using anti-ice on the A320, there is a bit more to it that simply selecting anti-ice and leaving it to sort it all out for you. The wing anti-ice is pretty much automatic, but the engine anti-ice needs a bit more care. If icing lasts for more than 30 minutes on the ground, or if the engines start vibrating, you are supposed to push the throttles up to 70 percent RPM for about 30 seconds before using higher thrust settings, and you should try and do that as close to when you are about to take off too, so you should park up and run the engines up a bit before committing to a take off roll in the A320. This is so that any ice build up in the nacelles is centrifugally forced out of the engines, as it could otherwise damage the engine or reduce the thrust available on take off.In flight, you might get icing on the A320 when the air temperature is as high as 10 degrees too by the way if there is moisture present in the air in the form of rain clouds, which can contain supercooled water that will freeze upon contact with the aeroplane's skin. All of that is mentioned in the A320 Standard Operating Procedures manual, so even an Airbus has things the pilots have to watch out for when there is ice about.Al

I put FS9 to the test to see if airframe icing actually occurs. This is how I did it and what I learned:1. I downloaded AFSD, as suggested by tgibson above (thank you!).2. I loaded the default flight.3. I selected the "Heavy Snows" theme from the weather menu.4. I went into the advanced weather menu and changed cloud icing from "light" to "severe."5. I took off and flew into the clouds to see what would happen.6. Within 5 minutes, AFSD showed that I had accumulated about 18 lbs of ice!7. My airspeed indicator started to drop. I had lost 20 knots already!8. I changed the weather theme back to "Fair Weather."9. AFSD indicated that the ice was slowly disappearing.Airframe icing is apparently simulated, even without weather addons. My Cessna probably would have crashed...Then I loaded the Dreamfleet Beech Baron, which is anti-ice equipped, to see what would happen. This revealed some additional info about FS9 icing. I recreated the exact same flight with the Baron, and ice started to build up (according to AFSD). I turned on the ice equipment (surface, props, etc.), but NOTHING happened, not even after 20 min. of flying. The ice kept building up on my plane. Strangely enough, I had accumulated over 70 lbs of ice, and the Baron kept on flying fine. Here's why: AFSD showed that the ice added to the weight of the plane, but I was burning enough fuel to compensate for the additional weight. So, FS9 seems to take ice weight into account, but not drag and lift, wing profile changes, etc. I guess if I had kept flying the Baron in the cloud long enough it may have had a bigger impact on the weight. Also, "severe" cloud icing built up ice a lot faster than the "light" or "trace" setting in the menu. Even in the "light" or "trace" setting, the icing equipment did not stop ice from accumulating though, which was disappointing.So, while airframe icing is possible, it does not affect the plane as it should. Therefore, icing equipment in FS9, apart from pitot heat, is useless, and the ice simply adds weight to the plane. In real life, 70 lbs of ice on a Baron 58 would be deadly.I hope that this shed some light on this issue. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to simulate airframe icing a little more realistically. Thanks!Doc

A quick word of warning to all PMDG and Maddog pilots, if you leave icing effects enabled, you will most likely come accross an annoying side effect.These 2 aircraft (and others, I seem to remember the Level D 767 being another, but I don't own this, so can't swear to it) don't seem to be able to heat their pitot tubes to a high enough level, and you get intermitent (almost random) pitot icing giving no end of problems. My favourite one is just after rotation, loosing the ASI, Autothrottle, etc, and getting all the alarms shouting at you.So, if you fly these wonderful aircraft, you most likely have to turn off the icing effects in ASE/FSUIPC which leave you missing out on the other effects of icing. This is a real pity, as the Maddog simulates engine icing, airframe icing very well.There are many posts on this (just have a search), but this has yet to be resolved.Neil

I think I am not well educated in anti ice so that's why I say that. I just know you turn on antiice and there is no more ice :) lol

It has been pointed out already towards the beginning of this thread that it is possible to simulate airframe icing in FS9 and FSX (not just pitot tube icing) with a range of side effects.At any rate what would you do if the aircraft you're flying, in FS or the real world, doesn't have anti-icing systems or they haven't been simulated? or not all of them (this is possible especially if flying a GA aircraft). There are different types of anti ice systems - for the engines, for the pitot tube, for the airframe (including the wings), etc.... It may happen that your aircraft may have pitot tube heating but not airframe and wings anti-ice systems - which means flying in icing conditions would result in ice build up on the airframe and wings. All you can do is try to get out of the icing conditions before the ice builds up to catastrophic levels - heating your pitot tube would not really resolve this.Here's another famous accident (Air Florida 'N62AF') where the B737-200 captain ignored a variety of icing (in addition to snow on the airframe) at take off with tragic results:http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19820113-0Also please reduce the image in your signature to the appropriate size according to AVSIM rules:'....no larger than 68 pixels high and no more than 400 pixels in width. The image file size can be no greater than 20K large......'See here: http://forum.avsim.net/index.php?app=core&module=help&do=01&HID=21or it will be deleted.

Edit...Redundant, failed to read the whole thread. Think I need more sleep.

Morn'n, Did someone mention the Colgan Air into Buffalo crash as another example of an icing crash ??? For the commuter turbo-props - the biggest thing I think you can do in icing conditions is turn off the darn autopilot... While it might be difficult to tell in FS - in the real world an experienced pilot would almost certainly feel the weight of the icing effect through the controls... Had he pilot done this simple step - I believe the Colgan crash would have been averted... As for us low and slow guys - this does add a new element to the Sim - about the only two options for a GA guy without icing equipment - is 1) Make a 180 to get out of the conditions and 2) descend below the freezing level... I've read a bunch of real world reports of guys trying to climb over the icing condition - which normally end with an NTSB report... I'm not sure how well FS9 reflects this - but - you can't have icing without visible moisture... Looks like I have some icing effects to try - thanks... Good subject...Regards,Scott

Hi Doc,Read my thread above about how many piston engine AIR files do not have the proper sections in them to activate deice. You CAN get proper deice to work, it just takes a little work with AirEd.Hope this helps,

As a regular Flight Simulator FS2002/FS2004, normally aspirated engine, piston prop Pilot, the thing I/we miss most, are the effects of "Carburettor Icing"....>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetor_heathttp://www.pilotfriend.com/safe/safety/carb_icing.htmIt is the silent killer for piston prop Pilots. After the resulting crash, all evidence of the ice will have melted, making it difficult to discern that particular reason! I make a point of frequently applying Carburettor Heat for short periods during the flight, especially in adverse atmospheric weather conditions, and always prior to reducing power for a landing. The partially closed Carburettor Butterfly increases air flow through the restricted venturi, creating a drop in Carburettor body temperature, resulting in ice formation and blockage in the venturi air intake with moisture in the air, thus restricting the fuel/air mixture to the engine, causing the engine to falter and stop.Regular application of Carburettor Heat, prevents this from occurring unexpectedly.The number-one rule for trainee Pilots!(Remember to cancel Carburettor Heat in an aborted landing, go-around condition, when maximum power is required. Carburettor Heat application reduces engine power!)Although Pitot Tube icing is very well replicated in the Flight Simulator,...unfortunately, Carburettor icing is not.Paul...G-BPLF...FS 2004...FS Navigator... :( ...!