ok, here is my simulated situation:I want to take 4 passengers sightseeing - and explore mountains, etc.the altitude we need to be at is in the 12-14000 msl range.now how do I solve that IF:1. I have a plane that can reach that alt. BUT2. it is not pressurized.how would this be handled in the real world?a. don't fly, get a plane that is pressurized? ORb. pass out oxygen to all the passengersc. something else entirely, please fill in with details

Typically you'd use oxygen, it's fairly common in GA aircraft to use oxygen, most gliders carry it for example, since they can make it all the way up to airliner-type heights on wave lift, and you'll find it is fairly common on the better GA twins and turbo singles.You can even see its use modeled in one or two FS aircraft, for example, Lionheart's excellent Bellanca Super Viking (ceiling over 20,000 feet), has an animation of the pilot and passengers donning oxygen breathing tubes of the type often used in GA aircraft when you turn the system on. These are not the big masks you see on airliner flight decks, but rather the cannula 'nose tubes' more akin to what you'd see in a hospital. You can see such systems here:http://sportys.com/source/features/search/search.cfm?keywords=oxygen&catalog=PilotShop&x=0&y=0You have to brief passengers on the use of it, so it's an item to add to your cabin briefing if you like realism, and it's an item to add to your climb checklist too. Additionally, if you have an altitude alerter, it is a wise precaution to set that to ping as you pass 9,000 feet. It's a good idea to practice with its use too, because if you fumble around when explaining it to passengers, it will make them nervous if they think you don't know what you are doing. Also a good idea to do a pop quiz on passengers at 15,000 and if anyone is slurring or talking bollocks, you'll know their oxygen regulator is not on properly, as the aircraft commander, this is your responsibility, but you can designate a competent passenger to assist in this if you can't actually get to people in other seats. Theoretically you can fly over 10,000 feet without oxygen and it will only get really uncomfortable at about 15,000 for someone in good shape, but it's not a good idea to go much above 8,000 without it for anyone who is not fit and healthy.You might also want to check your heater and if it is crappy, it is wise to tell the passengers to wrap up a bit, I know it can get bloody freezing in a glider once you get past about 18,000 feet. Sunglasses are a good thing to tell passengers to bring as well, as it is invariably pretty dazzling up there and a peaked baseball cap is a good thing for them too in order to avoid sunburn, but if you wear one yourself flip it backwards, as if you don't do that it restricts your upward vision on the climb and adds to the collision hazard, the peak will stop your neck getting sunburned too if you flip it around, you can see I've done that on my avatar picture actually.Incidentally, here's a handy post yuletide tip, aircraft oxygen is a cracking hangover cure too if you are feeling grim, just nip over to the hangar and have a couple of whiffs of it LOLOne other thing to be aware of if you use something like ASE, is that it can simulate vertical air movement, and in mountainous terrain that can be dangerous, so be aware of the wind direction and avoid the downwind side of peaks, because you could find the vertical air movement can outstrip your maximum rate of climb with a load of passengers on board (especially up near your service ceiling), and you don't want to give them a really close look at the mountains followed by a novelty emergency landing on a cliff face LOL.Al

On my Mustang flight, we generally stayed in the 8500ft range, but during the low speed and stall maneuvers, we took it over 10000ft. I believe we actually reached 11500ft. With no external oxygen, I didn't feel any ill affects. 14000ft though I think would be pushing it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoUF2MfDSiI

Typically you'd use oxygen, it's fairly common in GA aircraft to use oxygen, most gliders carry it for example, since they can make it all the way up to airliner-type heights on wave lift, and you'll find it is fairly common on the better GA twins and turbo singles.You can even see its use modeled in one or two FS aircraft, for example, Lionheart's excellent Bellanca Super Viking (ceiling over 20,000 feet), has an animation of the pilot and passengers donning oxygen breathing tubes of the type often used in GA aircraft when you turn the system on. These are not the big masks you see on airliner flight decks, but rather the cannula 'nose tubes' more akin to what you'd see in a hospital. You can see such systems here:http://sportys.com/source/features/search/search.cfm?keywords=oxygen&catalog=PilotShop&x=0&y=0You have to brief passengers on the use of it, so it's an item to add to your cabin briefing if you like realism, and it's an item to add to your climb checklist too. Additionally, if you have an altitude alerter, it is a wise precaution to set that to ping as you pass 9,000 feet. It's a good idea to practice with its use too, because if you fumble around when explaining it to passengers, it will make them nervous if they think you don't know what you are doing. Also a good idea to do a pop quiz on passengers at 15,000 and if anyone is slurring or talking bollocks, you'll know their oxygen regulator is not on properly, as the aircraft commander, this is your responsibility, but you can designate a competent passenger to assist in this if you can't actually get to people in other seats. Theoretically you can fly over 10,000 feet without oxygen and it will only get really uncomfortable at about 15,000 for someone in good shape, but it's not a good idea to go much above 8,000 without it for anyone who is not fit and healthy.You might also want to check your heater and if it is crappy, it is wise to tell the passengers to wrap up a bit, I know it can get bloody freezing in a glider once you get past about 18,000 feet. Sunglasses are a good thing to tell passengers to bring as well, as it is invariably pretty dazzling up there and a peaked baseball cap is a good thing for them too in order to avoid sunburn, but if you wear one yourself flip it backwards, as if you don't do that it restricts your upward vision on the climb and adds to the collision hazard, the peak will stop your neck getting sunburned too if you flip it around, you can see I've done that on my avatar picture actually.Incidentally, here's a handy post yuletide tip, aircraft oxygen is a cracking hangover cure too if you are feeling grim, just nip over to the hangar and have a couple of whiffs of it LOLOne other thing to be aware of if you use something like ASE, is that it can simulate vertical air movement, and in mountainous terrain that can be dangerous, so be aware of the wind direction and avoid the downwind side of peaks, because you could find the vertical air movement can outstrip your maximum rate of climb with a load of passengers on board (especially up near your service ceiling), and you don't want to give them a really close look at the mountains followed by a novelty emergency landing on a cliff face LOL.Al

HelloAl most of my mates talk bollocks at sea level, how can I tell if they are suffering from oxygen starvation?

wow, this is good news, as I really love the twotter, but better make sure the oxygen system is on...

HelloAl most of my mates talk bollocks at sea level, how can I tell if they are suffering from oxygen starvation?

Well there is danger that of course. Especially with some of the pilots I know, many of whom like to 'embellish' stories on the flight line. :( Al

Here's a simplified FAR part 91.211 for ya!:12,500-14,000' flight crew is required to have supplemental oxygen AFTER 30 minutes.Above 14,000' oxygen is REQUIRED for flight crew.Above 15,000' all occupants must wear supplemental oxygen (that means the passengers too).In other words, with the altitudes you mentioned supplemental oxygen is NOT required for your passengers.Over the summer on a 90F day I had the rental 182RG up at 13,500' for a short time. Fuel and load was light and it was a comfortable temperature with the cabin air off and vents cracked. :(

well, I used to live in Westcliffe, CO, at 8000' mslI moved down to FL at 28' msl, huge jumplets just say I feel a WHOLE lot better down here then I did up there, now as far as the weather goes... don't get me started with that, whew I miss the cool summer August evening in the low 50's with no humidity!If I were in a plane, I would def. want oxygen at about 9k I think...well, I least I can simulate having some bottles on my flights.

Back when I was in the Marines flying in helicopters, we flew around 12,000' without using O2 while doing cross country flights. Any higher and we would have had to have O2.

I go by the rule of 12,500' for the pilot. I do have a two place oxygen system , and if I'm using it, the passenger get's it too. I also have an oxy meter that fit's on the finger tip to tell me if my oxygen level is too low. It never is. Other than that, I'll regularly fly at 10,500 without supplemental oxygen. It's all mountains around here, so 8500-11,500 is the norm.L.Adamson