Um, who is flightsimexperts? Unless I am mistaken or senile, I don't recall licensing any FSG products for this sort of distribution.How long have they been in business? Any names?Anyone buy a computer from them? Anyone have more information?I think this pre-installed software needs some clarification.JustinFSGenesis

I'm sure you spotted the phone number to contact him on the page? :Big Grin: Is it against most EULAs to pre-install software? I mean if the original license is rightfully owned by the builder, of course. I understand a profit is being made from the software being installed, but not directly. Not to start one of those terrible copyright/eula conversations.

How can you pre-install any FS products? While installing most need some kind of activation, serial or something... FSG doesn't, but you need a valid login to download. But that would violate everything possible if he has Galaxy Membership and installing on multiple computers.IMO, this guy has to be questioned very detailed what he's doing, cuz to me, it seems like a very dark area.

How can you pre-install any FS products? While installing most need some kind of activation, serial or something... FSG doesn't, but you need a valid login to download. But that would violate everything possible if he has Galaxy Membership and installing on multiple computers.IMO, this guy has to be questioned very detailed what he's doing, cuz to me, it seems like a very dark area.

The same way you pre install any software. I don't see what the big deal is about the pre-installed software. OEMs do it all the time, just like they buy components, they buy the software licenses and install it on the pc and sell it at a mark up to reflect their time and value to the customer. People with more money than time or expertise hire other people to do things for them. It's called capitalism. I suppose a firm could be pirating the software, but it would be pretty stupid, especially if they advertised on the web as they would be very easy to catch.

I don't see what the big deal is about the pre-installed software. OEMs do it all the time

Yes, but OEMs operate under specific contract they are definitely "known" to the vendor. It becomes a big deal when as Justin explains above he never heard of flightsimexperts and doesn't recall licensing such entity to perform such installations.

Hello All - I am Jonathan from FlightSimExpert.com. Thank you zblast for the heads up about this thread! You and anyone else are welcome to get in touch with us and we can answer your questions and concerns. All of the software that we install in our systems is registered and licensed individually. We purchase it retail just like you do every system that we build. We're a new and very small operation. We're real pilots and guys who've been building sims mostly for our friends for years. I would hope that the software developers would be pleased that we believe in the product enough to include it with our system not to mention all of the retail sales they're getting from us buying licensed versions of their products!If any developer out there wants to contact us, our email and phone number is right on our site. We're happy to stop buying their products if that's what they want. Yeah, we know our website is behind the curve. Like I said, we are pilots and computer builders not gifted web designers. We're working on improving the site and the screen shots/video. We know about the Sandy Bridge recalls so we haven't been using those. The gentle, cool and very stable overclocking we do is to the i7-870 Lynnfield and i7-920 Bloomfield based processors. Overclocker geeks can contact us and we can go on and on about the subject! :) As far as addressing the hardware we use - I know we left it vague on the website and that is being addressed as we grow into a better website.Anyway most of our customers actually call and speak to us (a rare customer service these days). In fact most of our sales have been from referrals. We discuss the exact specs and even the types of planes and flying the customer intends to do. Some guys want more RAM or want a wireless LAN or specific graphic card and we accommodate that.If a customer doesn't want the system overclocked we won't do it (...but they all do so far!)No one buys a system from us without knowing exactly what they are getting.The key words here are "small custom operation". We're not a big outfit like Jetline. For most flight sim users, especially if they're pilots, they just want to know they're getting a quality system that has everything they need. We're like a little pro shop where a person can come get the exact system he would build for himself with all of the goodies already tweaked and ready to fly and we charge a fair price for it. We stand behind what we build and we provide excellent customer support. Yeah you can do this yourself but not everyone has the time or knowledge. Many pilots just want to get something for maintaining proficiency. They just want to know it's going to work right out of the box and be done with it. Thanks, Jonathan

Hello All - I am Jonathan from FlightSimExpert.com. Thank you zblast for the heads up about this thread! You and anyone else are welcome to get in touch with us and we can answer your questions and concerns. All of the software that we install in our systems is registered and licensed individually. We purchase it retail just like you do every system that we build. We're a new and very small operation. We're real pilots and guys who've been building sims mostly for our friends for years. I would hope that the software developers would be pleased that we believe in the product enough to include it with our system not to mention all of the retail sales they're getting from us buying licensed versions of their products!If any developer out there wants to contact us, our email and phone number is right on our site. We're happy to stop buying their products if that's what they want. Yeah, we know our website is behind the curve. Like I said, we are pilots and computer builders not gifted web designers. We're working on improving the site and the screen shots/video. We know about the Sandy Bridge recalls so we haven't been using those. The gentle, cool and very stable overclocking we do is to the i7-870 Lynnfield and i7-920 Bloomfield based processors. Overclocker geeks can contact us and we can go on and on about the subject! :) As far as addressing the hardware we use - I know we left it vague on the website and that is being addressed as we grow into a better website.Anyway most of our customers actually call and speak to us (a rare customer service these days). In fact most of our sales have been from referrals. We discuss the exact specs and even the types of planes and flying the customer intends to do. Some guys want more RAM or want a wireless LAN or specific graphic card and we accommodate that.If a customer doesn't want the system overclocked we won't do it (...but they all do so far!)No one buys a system from us without knowing exactly what they are getting.The key words here are "small custom operation". We're not a big outfit like Jetline. For most flight sim users, especially if they're pilots, they just want to know they're getting a quality system that has everything they need. We're like a little pro shop where a person can come get the exact system he would build for himself with all of the goodies already tweaked and ready to fly and we charge a fair price for it. We stand behind what we build and we provide excellent customer support. Yeah you can do this yourself but not everyone has the time or knowledge. Many pilots just want to get something for maintaining proficiency. They just want to know it's going to work right out of the box and be done with it. Thanks, Jonathan

Jonathan. Can you please elaborate and share with us what do you think a flight sim rig should be like? what motherboard, CPU, PSU, GPU, memory, HDD, OS etc. you offer/recommend and why?

Hi dazz, Your system is actually very similar to what we build so you should be very happy!Our current system specs - which changes occasionally because better stuff comes out and the prices goes down. We offer it with our systems at no additional charge. Anyone can email us to find out what the exact specs are at anytime. Intel i7 950, 920 or 780 CPU Gigabyte MB 1366 or 1156 socket MB (depending on CPU) Patriot 4GB DDR3 1600MHZ 2 drives – each 10,000RPM VelociRaptor with a total of 320GB 750W 20+4-pin ATX PSU w/SATA & PCIe EVGA GTX 480 GPU Coolmaster V8 CPU cooler ABS A+ Black Pearl or Coolermaster HAF 922 Full Tower CaseWindows 7 Ultimate Edition 64Bit Saitek Pro Flight yoke, dual throttle quads and rudder pedals V7 2.4ghz wireless keyboard and mouse DVD R/W 22” Asus LED 1080p HD monitor (16:9, 5ms) Also, remember our systems are fully customizable to the customer so if one wants more RAM, HDD, bigger monitor(s) or a specific part, we quote our best price to include it with the machine. However, for most users the base system is more than capable of delivering the performance they need. I won’t go into details about the amount of research to reach this set up. Let’s just say we waaaayyyy overbuilt a system at first and some hardware turned out to be overkill. We finally reached what we considered the best system for the price.These are exactly what we would build for ourselves. Looks like you came to a similar conclusion with your setup!

Also, remember our systems are fully customizable to the customer so if one wants more RAM, HDD, bigger monitor(s) or a specific part, we quote our best price to include it with the machine. However, for most users the base system is more than capable of delivering the performance they need. I won’t go into details about the amount of research to reach this set up. Let’s just say we waaaayyyy overbuilt a system at first and some hardware turned out to be overkill. We finally reached what we considered the best system for the price.These are exactly what we would build for ourselves. Looks like you came to a similar conclusion with your setup!

Thanks Jonathan for the prompt response and all the info. I will probably be calling you soon to discuss further. Meanwhile, you might look into the thread on this forum on FSMark11 and run your system through that benchmark and perhaps share the results. Also, I'd be interested in your thoughts on Sandy Bridge (now that the issue are fixed?) and SSD and the gtx 580 gpu.

More info here too: http://www.youtube.com/user/flightsimexpert

The pre-Sandy Bridge components specified place both companys' systems behind the curve ball to a significant degree, insofar as FSX performance is concerned. That system quoted by FlightSimExpert is not nearly on the same level as Dazz's, since the 1150 or 1366 platforms do not even come close, except when a 1366 socket is equipped with a highly stressed and overpriced 6 core CPU. The specs describe a good second class FSX computer, one that a lot of us have had in our past, but which has been obsolete for some time now. I am sure that the builders know what they know well, but I am concerned with how dated the products are. One thing for certain, if that kind of money is required, then a first class SB FSX engine should be provided, since it combines much more performance at less cost.The idea in the website to offer to bring flight sim to a party or event is a great one! Kind regards,

Yes Stephen (and remember a 6 core 1366 still falls behind SB in FSX), there's many arguable things there (friendly advise): 1.- Why HT CPU's?2.- Why 1366 when 1156 is just as good for gaming / FSX? 3.- Which motherboards exactly? of course 1366 socket for the 900 series and 1156 for the 870, but which ones and why?4.- 2 Vraps for just 320GB? 160GB Vraps are old BTW5.- 750W PSU means nothing. What model exactly? There're 750W rated PSU's based on peak wattage or sustained power draw and a 750W PSU can be overkill for a system like that, or can be crap too6.- GTX480, why a GF100 based GPU? I got mine that has the best cooling available in an amazing deal for 250€, but a GTX570 performs like a 480 with less power consumption, heat and costs far less in the US for what I know7.- Cooler Master V8 is a subpar cooler for the price. The Hyper 212 plus outperforms it and costs much less8.- Why Win 7 Ultimate for gaming? Home Premium won't ballast the system or anything like that and is obviously cheaper

Jonathan contacted me and I think we have an understanding. Doesn't appear to be any underhandedness going on here, just a slight omission of the licensing terms, but who reads those things anyway lol?Justin/FSG

Yes Stephen (and remember a 6 core 1366 still falls behind SB in FSX), there's many arguable things there (friendly advise): 1.- Why HT CPU's?2.- Why 1366 when 1156 is just as good for gaming / FSX? 3.- Which motherboards exactly? of course 1366 socket for the 900 series and 1156 for the 870, but which ones and why?4.- 2 Vraps for just 320GB? 160GB Vraps are old BTW5.- 750W PSU means nothing. What model exactly? There're 750W rated PSU's based on peak wattage or sustained power draw and a 750W PSU can be overkill for a system like that, or can be crap too6.- GTX480, why a GF100 based GPU? I got mine that has the best cooling available in an amazing deal for 250€, but a GTX570 performs like a 480 with less power consumption, heat and costs far less in the US for what I know7.- Cooler Master V8 is a subpar cooler for the price. The Hyper 212 plus outperforms it and costs much less8.- Why Win 7 Ultimate for gaming? Home Premium won't ballast the system or anything like that and is obviously cheaper

I would concur to everything Dazz said. There are lots of "old" things in the post above and the subpar doesn't justify the price.Also, an "22inch Asus LED Monitor" for 300$? Seriously? Which model and why?

We will run the FSXMark11 benchmarks on the next system we build. It looks like we must start with a fresh FSX install first. This interests me very much as I'd like to see how we do.We don't charge $300 for a 22" Asus V228H LED monitor as that would be ridiculous. He's referring to the 'deluxe' systems that include the monitor, additional throttle quadrant and the speaker array. That also adds a lot of shipping weight but we still ship Fedex free in the US for all systems.We are aware many of you have up to the second systems and may have had our base system in the past. However, we've never had anyone ask for a refund because the sim didn't perform to their expectations. We fly our systems at events and fly ins and people are amazed at the graphics clarity, realism and smoothness. Many of these people own FSX themselves and are real life pilots too. The systems run for hours at a time under the load of FSX as dozens of people play. As I previously posted, we'll give anyone a quote for ANY custom setup they want. If they want SB or a GTX570 or bigger drives then we can do it. If the hardware costs the same as what we normally use then it would cost the customer nothing more. If the hardware they want is dramatically cheaper then we would adjust the price in our quote. If they feel like they can build it themselves to save some money or buy a friend a case of beer to do it then great. There is no reason to call out the dogs on us when we can put together any system you dream up. Then we can battle the tuning, tweaking and adding all those (fully licensed!) add ons you may want. Moving forward we can start looking at some of these newer/better components and offering them as the base. We're still new as a business but we're just as experienced and knowledgeable as many of you are. The great thing about dealing with a small shop like us is the ability to be involved in the creation of your ideal system but having pros put it together and tweak it for you. ThanksJonathan

The main question here is "Can you put your own computer together", I have to side with Jonathan here, I'm a business man myself and deal with a lot of peoples and unless my customers ask my opinion on a specific product I will sell them what they want if I have it without asking why.Twenty two years ago I was tattooing peoples, good business, peoples were paying $1,500.00 + sometimes for a tattoo on their back when I paid around $750.00 for all the basic equipment I used, some people told me I charged to much for what I was doing and their friends could do the same for less money... :Big Grin: ... so my answer to them was "I'm welling to sell you the equipment so you can do it yourself or have your friend do it" :Nail Biting: they never got the equipment, they got their butt in the chair and got a tattoo, they left the shop very happy when I was done with them and they paid what I asked for, I was not in this business to brake even, knowledge is $$.Like Jonathan said, the machine they build lives up to their customers expectations and that should be good enough regardless of how much they paid for it, like many of you here I can put a computer together with my eyes closed using the latest component and saving $$ by buying them on sale but not everybody can do that and that is why company like flightsimexpert is there and I'm sure they are not in business to brake even.....On to another subject.....As far as the "My hardware is better than your's for FSX" type of debate goes I see only one way to settle this once for all, lets all have the same fsx.CFG settings + all sliders set to the same positions (all maxed out) using the same scenery exp: Orbx scenery departing from Seattle's international airport (Tacoma) with a fast plane and film directly from the TV screen with a camera mounted on a tripod...let see how smooth the flight is from the VC and the outside view, let see how much stutterings or blurries one will have.....benchmarking is good on paper but it's only when the rubber met the road that we can tell which set up is the best.....shall we?