You don't want to hear my answer hehe.Basically from what I've read all new PSU's are made with active PFC, you can learn about it on wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Active_PFCCheap battery backups emulate the sine wave that normal AC outputs (like from your wall in your home), but it's not close enough when using a power supply that uses active PFC. A few years ago, psu's were made more cheaply and used passive PFC. This was compatible with battery backups. Apparently the newer PSU's are energy star 5.0 rated and are much more efficient, and made better, but they are using that active pfc standard. Reading on I found that if the sine wave output on the battery backup is not aligned with the PSU it could damage your PSU over time, it's basically putting additional wear on it.In my somewhat special case my Windows 7 power settings were set so in case of a critical battery condition (not sure what defines that) the PC would go into hibernation. The battery backup thought this is what was happening once in a while with tiny tiny power flucuations from my PSU (though normal!) and decided to tell Windows to hibernate. I'm not too worried because I've only run with the backup for 1.5 months.Oh yeah, the short answer is no, you need to buy a quality battery backup if you do care. I'm talking to my bro-in-law about this - he's electrical engineer so I'll let you know what he says.The one I want to get is this one and while not cheap we have these awesome systems so I'd like to protect them properly:http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/adaptive-sinewave-series/CP1500PFCLCD.html

Thanks Ryan for the analysis. So in other words, this surge protector/backup is useless for my machine at best, and likely destructive to my PSU. Ordering another expensive component to replace it is not an option. So, instead of leaving it on is it better then for me to return it to the retailer and go back to the strip bars and wall plugs? What is safer, this or nothing? What do you think?Kind regards,

Well for now I've gone back to the basic power strip until my brother gets back to me. I'm not sure if it's totally "damaging" the PSU or if it just puts extra wear on it - that's what I'm trying to figure out. Someone on newegg wrote it damages it but I find it hard to believe it will really destroy a PSU.

Thanks Ryan for the analysis. So in other words, this surge protector/backup is useless for my machine at best, and likely destructive to my PSU. Ordering another expensive component to replace it is not an option. So, instead of leaving it on is it better then for me to return it to the retailer and go back to the strip bars and wall plugs? What is safer, this or nothing? What do you think?Kind regards,

I suggest going back to the strip bars. I'll go with you! ;-)

Thanks Ryan for the analysis. So in other words, this surge protector/backup is useless for my machine at best, and likely destructive to my PSU. Ordering another expensive component to replace it is not an option. So, instead of leaving it on is it better then for me to return it to the retailer and go back to the strip bars and wall plugs? What is safer, this or nothing? What do you think?Kind regards,

Stephen, I had one of those battery backup/surge protectors connected to my system and it appeared to be the cause of some of my crashes so I replaced it with a power strip and no more crashes. Then, a couple of days ago I went to BestBuy and bought a RocketFish 8-outlet Power Manager with Surge Protection and Noise Filtering (RF-HTS120) and it really works well. I still have to determine the reason for my unexplained crashes when overclocked to 4.8GHz. Like I said previously, I think they are related to CPU overheating or memory configuration.Best regards,Jim

No offense intended, but personally I think "pure sine wave" UPS's for PCs, or for any other electronic device using a switching PSU, is pure, unadulterated snake oil.The reason is PCs sport Switching PSUs that don't give a rat's behind as to the shape of the incoming AC mains wave because the switching bit of the PSU switches tha AC on and off at 50 kHz to 1 MHz by the PSU's voltage control circuitry (the ratio of on vs. off determines the output voltage.)Only electric motors require pure sinewaves to avoid excessive heating.Unlike the displacement power factor (reactance) created by linear inductive or capacitive loads, Switched PSUs generate harmonics that can cause excessive heat in the generators and transformers supplying the PSU.If you only want transient suppression, go to an electronics store annd get yourself 20 varistors and roll your own surge protector, or consider buying a real protector against surges, overvoltage, undervoltage and lightning. The worst possible surge protector you can buy is the power strip (has a single varistor for $1), because the worst possible protection is the protection you think you have but in reality don't.Cheers,- jahman.

I suggest going back to the strip bars. I'll go with you! ;-)

LOL @ Bob :LMAO:

The worst possible surge protector you can buy is the power strip (has a single varistor for $1), because the worst possible protection is the protection you think you have but in reality don't.Cheers,- jahman.

Indeed, and the most common failure mode for a varistor when it gives its all is an open circuit, leaving you with no protection at all, and no warning.I also doubt damage is a real possibility when using an active-PFC power supply with a step-approximated sine wave UPS; otherwise why would APC sell millions of SASW UPS units carrying a $25,000 - $150,000 warranty to users for their protected equipment if the waveform coming out the back end of the unit was at all likely to smoke the aforementioned protected equipment? I suspect this probably has more to do with the generally slower changeover times prevalent on the cheaper consumer-grade SASW UPS units (which has nothing to do with the output waveform), coupled with lower tolerance of changeover voltage drops by the cheaper load-correction circuitry in the lower-end PFC-equipped power supplies. So the net sum of that is you're more likely to see your PC miss the changeover and shut down when the UPS kicks into battery power, not more likely to see a puff of smoke.All that said, I have several PCs with active PFC supplies running off SASW UPS boxes...the UPSs regularly kick on and off several times a night for power line events, and never in five years has one of my PCs done a disorderly shutdown as a result of the UPS switching over.

No offense intended, but personally I think "pure sine wave" UPS's for PCs, or for any other electronic device using a switching PSU, is pure, unadulterated snake oil.

None taken but I disagree. You can test this with your UPS and PC. If you get a buzz while the backup is holding the weight you know the wave is not aligned as it should be.

All that said, I have several PCs with active PFC supplies running off SASW UPS boxes...the UPSs regularly kick on and off several times a night for power line events, and never in five years has one of my PCs done a disorderly shutdown as a result of the UPS switching over.

I'm not saying it will - it should though if your power settings are set for it. For instance, on my rig I (didn't know until yesterday) than if Windows detects a critical battery condition Windows will go to hibernation. Yours probably isn't set like mine, which is why yours aren't turning off/sleeping/hibernating.Anyway I'm seeking more research on this topic to see whether it is legit or not.edit: There's some confusion on the net (suprise) as to what's really happening. I'm not even sure I follow this response (too techy), but this paraphrase was taken from a Silverstone psu engineer:"This is the same situation for all of PSU even not SilverStone.We do have experience on the UPS damage PSU, and my explanation is as follow.The problem is cause of UPS sent square wave to PSU when AC loss then Bridge diode inside of PSU will convert square wave into PSU primary circuit.Therefore, the voltage cross on bulk capacitor will be near to Top of UPS square wave in continuously.For example, voltage on the top of square wave is 470V then PSU bulk capacitor cross voltage is near 470V.The 470V will damage PSU bulk capacitor or other components in primary circuit since the rating of bulk capacitor is 200V * 2 pcs = 400V.One kind of UPS is send sine wave to PSU when AC loss that won’t get this issue but the price is higher.Actually, there is not chance to solve this issue by PSU due to too many components must be upgrade.But UPS just need to extend PWM duty cycle that top voltage of square wave can be reduced under 400V.It is easiest way to resolve this issue."

taken from a Silverstone psu engineer:"This is the same situation for all of PSU even not SilverStone.We do have experience on the UPS damage PSU, and my explanation is as follow.The problem is cause of UPS sent square wave to PSU when AC loss then Bridge diode inside of PSU will convert square wave into PSU primary circuit.Therefore, the voltage cross on bulk capacitor will be near to Top of UPS square wave in continuously.For example, voltage on the top of square wave is 470V then PSU bulk capacitor cross voltage is near 470V.The 470V will damage PSU bulk capacitor or other components in primary circuit since the rating of bulk capacitor is 200V * 2 pcs = 400V.One kind of UPS is send sine wave to PSU when AC loss that won’t get this issue but the price is higher.Actually, there is not chance to solve this issue by PSU due to too many components must be upgrade.But UPS just need to extend PWM duty cycle that top voltage of square wave can be reduced under 400V.It is easiest way to resolve this issue."

I sooooo do not understand what this means!

I sooooo do not understand what this means!

It's a lot of math and I'm not an electrical engineer... that's why I want to look into this further.

The math is fairly straightforward:What your AC voltmeter measures is RMS - Root Mean Square voltage.For a sine wave Vp2p = 2 * Vpeak = 2 * Vrms * sqrt (2) = 2 * 110V * 1.41 = 311V.For a square wave Vp2p = 2 * Vpeak = 2 * Vrms = 2 * 110V = 220VNote Vp2p is 29% lower for a square wave than for a sine wave, so any discussion about PC PSU capacitor damage needs to take this fact into account.Regarding the need of the backup PSU square wave output needing to be in synch with the PC PSU, notice the backup PSU generates a square wave of frequency 60 Hz vs the internal PC PSU "chopper" square wave frequency of 50 kHz - 1 MHz, thus making synch irrelevant.Cheers,- jahman.

That's sorta opposite of what that engineer wrote...Oh boy, more sorting for me I guess.

Thread derail by me mainly... sorry! Will open a new one!

Indeed, and the most common failure mode for a varistor when it gives its all is an open circuit, leaving you with no protection at all, and no warning.I also doubt damage is a real possibility when using an active-PFC power supply with a step-approximated sine wave UPS; otherwise why would APC sell millions of SASW UPS units carrying a $25,000 - $150,000 warranty to users for their protected equipment if the waveform coming out the back end of the unit was at all likely to smoke the aforementioned protected equipment?

Without agreement or disagreement about suitability of a SASW UPS (directed at APC), I would warrant you my lucky rabbit's foot, will protect your system up to one-contrillian dollars. Good luck getting $25,000 on a 750-watt UPS and when I factor the possibility of a surge actually causing damage and the lessor possibility of a lighting strike, I am pretty comfortable in my offer.I bought my UPS for one reason (primarily); data protection. The surge protection is ok too.Just saying I would not take some superfluous warranty as anything but that.Edit:If I read this right? To draw summary: True Sine wave is only absolutely required in countries operating on 240v native. http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3964.html However money prevailing I would suggest we forgo the electronics lesson and just buy a true sine wave UPS; takes all the guesswork out of the equation.Yet more fuel for the fire; note the authors claimed accreditations: http://www.kerchner.com/electrical/sinewave.htm