PC Pilot (May - June) Summary of "Flight" Interview

[JSkorna 137]

Mark,There are SO many users that would disagree with that suggestion that it's not even funny. For FSX guess what the #1 wish was for throughout the FS community? That's right, some level of backward compatibility especially for FS9 things. If people need to re-purchase all their FS stuff for a new version there will be heck to pay for a very long time. Just read through some wish list threads here and elsewhere and you'll see it over and over again: "my FSX stuff better work or I'm not moving" type posts.

[Chock 17,769]

@ chuck and bryn, I myself do not use freeware anymore because I had to many problems with them, NOT all of them, when one freeware is not playing nice with your FSX for what ever reason you have to find out which one is bugging your setup and that is a pain in the a$ to do so that is why I do not use them anymore.I understand where you are comming from but to be able to make freeware for Flight you will have to have access to the SDK and since MS is opening a store to make money from the sales of addons (% from the dev.) I can't see them releasing the SDK this time but to the approved developpers selling in the store, the only way I can see that happening is for who ever is using Flight offline but this scenario would be very complicated, again you would need to have access to the SDK.I understand that nothing is bullet proof today as far as hacking a game and that is why they have not released to much info. on how that store will work with Flight but so far I can't see freeware making their way in Flight.

There is all sorts of freeware. Repaints are freeware for example. How many repaints do you think there are on Avsim's file library where the person doing the repaint studiously went through the SDK before having a crack at it? In fact, a good many were out there before there even was an SDK. Most are either simply overpainted on default textures, or they use a paint kit if there is one, but either way, the SDK rarely even comes into the equation. This is just a simple example of people not requiring an SDK, nor the blessing of MS, to make stuff.Did the lack of a paint kit or SDK from Ariane stop me repainting my Ariane FSX NG? nope, it did not, I made my own layered texture file from the BCA texture it came with, by cloning stuff out in Photoshop. I have not made it available online because of the fact that Ariane sell textures and that's their EULA, so it was just for me, but I did post screenshots of it on the Ariane forums, and they said 'well done'.MS might make no SDK available to Joe Blow for Flight, but if you think that will stop people from making freeware for it, then I beg to differ. Take some fancy payware FSX aircraft as an example; i.e. the PMDG B737 NG which is soon to be released, or the A2A B-17G. Both of these aircraft essentially do the same thing I did with that paint job, that is to say, they work around a problem and make things possible that the SDK never even dreamed of touching upon. If every developer stuck to the SDK instead of thinking outside the box, it would make innovation dead in the water, there would be no PMDG 737 with a HUD and super-duper FMC, no Accusim B-17 with realistic engines and authentic avionics, no Aerosoft Diamond Katana with persistent wear and tear and realistic servicing, no DodoSim Bell 206 with a realistic gas turbine, VRS and retreating blade stalls etc. These are the things flight simmers want, and they don't get them from developers who treat the SDK as being written in stone.If there is never any freeware for MS Flight, then I'll eat my hat.Al

[JSkorna 137]

Al,With or without chips? :(

[stevem72 10]

JimHow on earth can the "flight sim" genre move forward without making a clean break somewhere along the line - IMO its got to happen and to Microsoft, MS Flight could be seen as the right time/sim to do it. Surely they aren't going to be producing a 2011/2012 sim that is coded to allow products from 2004-2005 to possibly hold it back - are they?!?!I'm no expert in developing at all - thats your baby :( - I'm just a 39/40 year old lover of flight sims, and I have plenty of add-ons (both payware & freeware) that in some cases I would be very sorry to see go, but if MS offered DX10/11, the ability to use all cores efficiently, smoother and better performance and what FSX maybe SHOULD have been etc etc, then I for one would gladly "start over" from scratch and leave those add-ons behind.As much as I enjoy FSX, there is always the sense of "what if, but & maybe" with it in that it has always, even now, felt like there is unfinished business and how much better it could have been. Then again, I am aware that any product, flight sim related or not, would be much better given more time, effort and money to add features, tweak, fine tune etc, but that a line has to be drawn and the "product" has to be released at some point to recoup the outlay and make a profit!!I just hope that "flight" arrives without some of the more obvious flaws of FSX, that the MS promises/advertising/propaganda machine that will probably crank up nearer and nearer to release doesn't over promise but under achieve, and that ir doesn't take 4-5 years to get the thing running at anything like acceptable levels!!!Heres hopingBest WishesSteve

[Andydigital 93]

I'd just settle for a default weather engine that actually works and a better dynamic scenery lighting system with cloud shadows, I would like rounded earth airports too so they don't look like aircraft carriers sticking out of the ground like they do now.

[Chock 17,769]

Yup, I'm not really into wish lists, but if there was one thing I would like in a flight sim, it would be proper undulating runways that were like the real things are. Some of the ones I've landed on for real felt like I was gonna break my spine and snap the wings off when rolling over dips in the grass. Anyone who has ever landed at Husband's Bosworth in Leicestershire and has still been rolling fast when they cross the line that marks where the old perimeter track used to cross it when it was a WW2 airfield will know exactly what I mean. You can see that line in the grass from the air when in the circuit, but not from when you are on the ground, however, you know exactly when you've rolled over the thing cause there's a bang that sounds like you've been hit by flak LOL.Al

[ErichB 3,651]

Bill, thanks for posting this. I think there is a significant amount of detail in this latest issue. Certainly significant in comparison to someone's comment of 'nothing new' in my earlier thread. I think this article has confirmed countered quiet a few doubts.

Mark,There are SO many users that would disagree with that suggestion that it's not even funny. For FSX guess what the #1 wish was for throughout the FS community? That's right, some level of backward compatibility especially for FS9 things. If people need to re-purchase all their FS stuff for a new version there will be heck to pay for a very long time. Just read through some wish list threads here and elsewhere and you'll see it over and over again: "my FSX stuff better work or I'm not moving" type posts.

Jim - you have said many times yourself, that 'we - the forum users/posters' are not the MS' target market for Flight. Why then would MS care one hoot if we threw a strop because we couldn't use our FSX Carenado 182 in Flight. And it would only be a subset of the hardcore sim user group who may not purchase Flight for this reason. MS have clearly said they are targeting a much larger mass market with their integrated one-stop shop addon store. Our backward compatibility, although much desired, can't be at the top of the priority list. Erich

[JSkorna 137]

Hi,I did say users wish this as #1 and not MS. But MS has their reasons too; not because of backward compatibility, but backward compatibility is the outcome of these reasons.

[Fsau 0]

So a lot of IPad apps are pirated? I don't have one so that is why I ask!

Don't have an iPad? Neither do I but rest assured if demand was high enough the apps would be pirated.

I have to say that I don't know much about piracy as I buy everything legit., as I understand one can download addons for FSX from a pirate website and install it for free without paying for it.Now let say you have Flight installed on your PC, let say you want to add some scenery to your VIRTUAL Flight and the only way to do it is to buy the scenery from the market store, so you enter your Flight number + your customer store number and your credit card or your paypal account number after you selected the scenery you want from your a developper you like, you'r approved and MS download the scenery directly to YOUR Flight, so you start your Flight and the scenery you got is there.....As I said I know nothing about piracy but how can one get he scenery downloaded to is PC from a pirate website if the only way to get it is to have it downloaded directly to your Flight from the MS's store? If you don't have direct access to the addons by downloading them directly to your computer first like we are doing now for all FSX addons how can you pirate them?

This is the same model that Steam uses.The only reason I mentioned it was because to date there is very little that can be done to truly stop pirating, certainly Steam hasn't made a difference, I don't see how the MS store would be any different. The only viable way I could imagine it being possible would be storing vital elements and files on a server that we would all need to connect to every time we play. Anyway, it was just a passing comment.

[JSkorna 137]

Steve,The people on Flight do have a budget and a time frame that they must follow as well, so sometimes a "clean break" is not entirely possible.

[alainneedle1 97]

There is all sorts of freeware. Repaints are freeware for example. How many repaints do you think there are on Avsim's file library where the person doing the repaint studiously went through the SDK before having a crack at it? In fact, a good many were out there before there even was an SDK. Most are either simply overpainted on default textures, or they use a paint kit if there is one, but either way, the SDK rarely even comes into the equation. This is just a simple example of people not requiring an SDK, nor the blessing of MS, to make stuff.Did the lack of a paint kit or SDK from Ariane stop me repainting my Ariane FSX NG? nope, it did not, I made my own layered texture file from the BCA texture it came with, by cloning stuff out in Photoshop. I have not made it available online because of the fact that Ariane sell textures and that's their EULA, so it was just for me, but I did post screenshots of it on the Ariane forums, and they said 'well done'.MS might make no SDK available to Joe Blow for Flight, but if you think that will stop people from making freeware for it, then I beg to differ. Take some fancy payware FSX aircraft as an example; i.e. the PMDG B737 NG which is soon to be released, or the A2A B-17G. Both of these aircraft essentially do the same thing I did with that paint job, that is to say, they work around a problem and make things possible that the SDK never even dreamed of touching upon. If every developer stuck to the SDK instead of thinking outside the box, it would make innovation dead in the water, there would be no PMDG 737 with a HUD and super-duper FMC, no Accusim B-17 with realistic engines and authentic avionics, no Aerosoft Diamond Katana with persistent wear and tear and realistic servicing, no DodoSim Bell 206 with a realistic gas turbine, VRS and retreating blade stalls etc. These are the things flight simmers want, and they don't get them from developers who treat the SDK as being written in stone.If there is never any freeware for MS Flight, then I'll eat my hat.Al

I completely understand what you are saying, I'm not against freeware at all, I'm just saying that this time the game (business) will be played differently.Let say that you buy a plane from the store, what's telling you that you can't also buy a repaint for it (between several others) at $2.00 a pop? You don't like the default paint job that your plane came with.....choose one you like when buying the plane, you want another one or two....$2.00 a pop.I can't be sure on the price of the paint job as I droped my crystal ball two days ago, the ball is at the Physic's store been repaired as we speak....:(

[alainneedle1 97]

Don't have an iPad? Neither do I but rest assured if demand was high enough the apps would be pirated.This is the same model that Steam uses.The only reason I mentioned it was because to date there is very little that can be done to truly stop pirating, certainly Steam hasn't made a difference, I don't see how the MS store would be any different. The only viable way I could imagine it being possible would be storing vital elements and files on a server that we would all need to connect to every time we play. Anyway, it was just a passing comment.

Is in this called a virtual world? If I got Miami airport (payware) from the store and you did not I'll be seeing it when flying from it (multiplayer) with you but you'll see Miami default since you did not get it, like a card game online (poker), you see your cards but you can't see other players card and the other players can't see your cards.........:( Had my repaired crystal ball delivered to me 5 minutes ago.....:(

[Guest jahman]

There's no inherent technical reason why FSX aircraft and scenery could not be compatible with Flight, but there are many business reasons why they should be compatible.Cheers,- jahman.

[Andydigital 93]

There is one big reason for them not to include backwards compatibility, M0N€¥, Microsoft won't get their cut via the shop if people can simply import their previous addons from earlier sims.

[Guest jahman]

There is one big reason for them not to include backwards compatibility, M0N€¥, Microsoft won't get their cut via the shop if people can simply import their previous addons from earlier sims.

Sure, you can always cash-in on your franchise and destroy it, but that doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do.In this case the smart thing to do is to offer backwards compatibility so we get a better experience with Flight right out of the box and with the FSX complex aircraft and scenery we already own, while in the meantime developpers have time to come-up with aircraft and scenery that use features specific to add-ons developped for Flight, which we will then buy via Marketplace or other channels.Before the battery on my crystal ball runs-out, sim versions vs. add-ons seem to follow a strategy similar to Intel's Tick-Tock: A new sim version is released, a year later quality add-ons are released, then a year later a new version of the sim is released, then a year later new add-ons, etc. FSX was the only exception with no new version (but 2 SPs) released in many years.Cheers,- jahman.